You know those cereal commercials they played during cartoons back when you were a kid? The ones that showed the cereal, plus fruit, milk, toast, juice, bacon, eggs, waffles, and whatever else? "Super-Frosted Sugar Smacks is part of this complete breakfast."

No, "Super-Frosted Sugar Smacks" is adjacent to this complete breakfast. It's sitting on the same table. You might even have a chance to nibble on them, assuming you didn't fill up on the real breakfast first.

Likewise, Hillary Clinton might have been adjacent to her husband's Presidency, but I'm a little suspicious of her attempts to claim Bill's experiences for her own.

I have quite a few problems with Obama's policies, but at least he got to where he is despite his name. Hillary Clinton got to where she is because of her name. She's moderately intelligent, but I doubt she would have even been a senator had she not been married to Bill.

z-z-z-z-z-z-z

Politicians suck a pony. I am not sure what makes them lose their human touch, it's prolly the power drinks.

curmudge: I will not have political relations with that woman, Ms Clinton. I will not support her and I will not vote for her. I also will not vote for any of the current crop of Republicans. So if she wins the Democratic nomination I'll be voting 3rd party this November.

Bloomberg/Paul 2008

Unity08

Green Party

Whatever

I have no idea what the hell I'm going to do if the Dems nominate Clinton. The Green Party is running that truther nut McKinney, the Republicans are right out, and I really don't want to vote for Clinton.
Not sure who my protest vote goes to, then.

Whoa, this article is truly icy, very ten years ago.

FTFA: She insisted on producing a complicated plan for sweeping health reforms that would guarantee medical insurance for all, but refused to consult experts who didn't already agree with her.

This sounds just a bit too much like a current president.

Obama, so we don't have to relive this soap opera.

T-Servo: Obama, so we don't have to relive this soap opera.

This.

I do not want to have four-eight more years of rabid partisan hatred. So far the only figure that's reached across the lines and motivated both independents and Republicans to work together has been Obama.

I've voted Democrat my entire voting life. If Hillary wins the Dem nomination, I will be voting Republican or third party. There are a lot of people I know who share my sentiment, including a few rabid liberals, and I do think one of the few ways Dems can mess up the '08 elections is by nominating Hillary.

That was actually an interesting read, by the way, even if it would have been more interesting in 2000.

Son of God: I get the feeling that they say it now, but they'll fall in line when the general election comes up.

I can't vouch for them, but I can for myself. I will not vote for Hillary no matter who her opponent is, and if she is nominated, this will be the first time in my lifetime I'll be supporting a non-Democratic candidate for pres. I would vote for Obama, Edwards, Kucinich, Biden, Dodd, Richardson, and the rest, but I cannot in good conscience vote for her.

Whereas Clinton has been the one that has actually worked with the Republicans, and Obama just preaches it.

First off, I'm not just talking about politicians, I'm talking about voters as well. Obama has a way of getting a lot of enthusiasm from Republican and independent voters (and polls show this), whereas Clinton has a ridiculously large disapproval rating from Republicans and independents. He has a very good opportunity to expand the Democratic base to capture a lot of independents and young people who are going to be pushed away if Hillary wins the nomination.

Beyond that, it's about the message as well. I can't count how many times I've heard Hillary say the words "vast right-wing conspiracy". That's not the talk of a leader who unites the people, that's talk of one who divides. You won't ever find Obama saying things like that. Just the simple discrepancy in their messages that I described here shows that Obama has a level of maturity and decency that far exceeds that of Hillary's.

Hillary is the embodiment of dirty politics and the embodiment of the political climate we've all been feeling for the last seven-eight years. I refuse to vote for her under any circumstances, and she is the only Democratic candidate I can say that for.

I am very left of center in my politics. But if Clinton gets the nomination, there is no way in hell I am voting for her. If the Republican candidates are Huckabee or McCain, I'll vote for them, if not, i'll stay home. I would rather have obvious corporate shills in the White House than a corporate slave who pretends she's really on our side.

Now I know I cannot be alone in feeling this way.


Why, why would we be crazy enough to invite that madness back into the White House?

Obama has got to pull this one out and win the nomination. We need to kick the Clintons, along with the Bushs, right out of power for good!

Then she can clearly handle al qaeda.

Recall all Repuglikkkans: That should be more of a reason to support her. Anyone who Repuglikkkans like is someone to be ignored.

Statements like the one you made are the reason our political discourse is utter failure. Obama's not drawing hardcore neocons, he's drawing moderate Republicans. If you're so hard-line liberal that you don't want to welcome more people to the cause, you should vote for Hillary, not Obama.

If Hilary wins Super Tuesday, look for Bloomberg to make a run, with all bets off as to who his running mate might be (Lieberman? Powell? Trump?).

If none of the Republican candidates can effectively unify the religious "values voters" wing of their party with the Wall Street/ fiscal conservatives, this could be the best shot in our lifetimes of a third party candidate actually pulling this out.

Echoic: Statements like the one you made are the reason our political discourse is utter failure. Obama's not drawing hardcore neocons, he's drawing moderate Republicans. If you're so hard-line liberal that you don't want to welcome more people to the cause, you should vote for Hillary, not Obama.

Yep. He's the Left's version of a fundie. Anyone that disagrees with your political views is automatically a member of a racist terrorist organization? You, Recall all Republikkans, are worse than Dubya.

I wish I had a quarter for every time someone said "I'm a life-long Democrat, but I'll never vote for Clinton! I just don't like her politics." That would buy me a lot of weed.

If you can boil down your reason for choosing one candidate over the other to one sentence, chances are you're an idiot.

Onager: If you can boil down your reason for choosing one candidate over the other to one sentence, chances are you're an idiot.

"I don't like her politics" isn't a valid reason? What are you talking about? Isn't that what elections are about?

that was an incredibly long, but amazing article.

/glad i read it

So, Hillary's just Rick Rolling us, right? Right?

/scared

Obama has an almost identical voting record as Hillary. I am a republican, and if McCain doesn't get the nomination I might just have to throw my vote towards Hillary. She might come up with a bunch of social programs I wont agree with, but atleast the Clintons were fiscal.

/Goldwater republicans have no one to vote for these days

"She was extremely Machiavellian, a master of doing things that could not be traced back to her," recalled one close colleague. "She would say: 'Do this, but don't leave any fingerprints.'"

VOTE HILLARY IN '08!

/shudder

On January 21, 1993, Bill's first full day in office, she and Bill shook some 1,800 hands in three hours.

"We just screwed all these people," she whispered to her husband - a comment heard on network television.

HILLARY CLINTON: 35 YEARS OF CHANGE!

Bloomberg/Powell would make a cool ticket in a way. Bloomberg would have to make a hard sell to Powell to possibly go against his new friends at the Carlyle group though

TheCid: curmudge: I will not have political relations with that woman, Ms Clinton. I will not support her and I will not vote for her. I also will not vote for any of the current crop of Republicans. So if she wins the Democratic nomination I'll be voting 3rd party this November.

Bloomberg/Paul 2008

Unity08

Green Party

Whatever

I have no idea what the hell I'm going to do if the Dems nominate Clinton. The Green Party is running that truther nut McKinney, the Republicans are right out, and I really don't want to vote for Clinton.
Not sure who my protest vote goes to, then.

Nothing to worry, there's plenty to pick from:

bartink: Then she can clearly handle al qaeda.

By their hairy balls

seabass242: Obama has an almost identical voting record as Hillary.

You are correct they often vote similarly because they are both Democrats. There are some issues that do raise some differences in ideology and beliefs, however:

------------
Obama voted to ban gun confiscations during disasters such as hurricane Katrina, while Clinton voted to allow the government to confiscate legally-owned weapons.

Obama opposed the constitutional amendment to ban flag burning, Clinton supported it.

Clinton voted to support a resolution declaring Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, an elite part of the Iranian military, a foreign terrorist group.

Clinton voted against a bill that would expand the role of ethanol production, Obama voted for it.

Obama backed an increase in vehicle fuel-efficiency standards, which Clinton opposed.
------------

There's more discrepancies, but there's a short list of relatively important items I put together quickly. These are only votes, not ideological differences on other issues where votes have not been cast.

There are some important differences, and people should research them. This too often boils down to an experience vs. change debate, but after researching myself I find myself agreeing with Obama's positions on these issues. Personally, the constitutional amendment to ban flag burning that Hillary supports and her assertion that the government has the rights to take your weapons in a crisis makes me completely unable to support her, among other things. It just so happens that Obama's record is also much more sound than Hillary's is when voting on the issues.

Recall all Repuglikkkans: And yet farkers seem to think that he somehow is more 'centerist' than she is. Frankly, we've just gone through eight years of a guy who claims to be 'bipartisan' and a 'uniter, not a divider' with little experience but I guess people feel like repeating themselves.

You need to realize that you're just as destructive as the neocons. You've demonstrated in a previous post that you're too partisan to rationally think. There is no surprise you're going for Hillary, the most divisive Dem there is.

It's interesting that you'd criticize the 'unite' theme when you're one of the ones who would refuse to unite.

Really interesting article. Made me simultaneously more and less afraid of her. She can at least rule, but I do enjoy being free. In addition to the parts of her voting record that Echoic pointed out, there's her anti-video game stance. I truly feel she believes that she thinks of us as stupid, destructive schlops that need one person to watch over us and make sure we all play nice according to her rules and ideals. That's a pretty un-American position when you get down to it. I have serious doubts about Obama's electability (anyone else notice that he avoids being specific in his speeches?), but he at least seems like a fiscally responsible candidate that could put together viable plans and won't devour your soul. The picture in the article of Hillary pointing (which is a really awful picture in all respects) makes me think that if Bill had any illegitimate children she would devour them raw and serve the mothers for a banquette dinner in an nice white wine reduction sauce with capers.
/shudder

deramin: I have serious doubts about Obama's electability (anyone else notice that he avoids being specific in his speeches?)

You're right, his speeches don't hit the issues as much as many of the other candidates do. I don't think that's an electability thing, though, because he's drawing gargantuan crowds and there's a general consensus he's the best speaker. In debates, however, Obama does bring up the issues clearly. It appears that he uses his speeches for inspiration and the debates for the issues.

The best his speeches can do is get people's interest so that they look deeper and understand his record. He does actually have a respectable record, regardless of how the media trumpets his "lack of experience" so they can pigeonhole candidates.

The picture in the article of Hillary pointing (which is a really awful picture in all respects) makes me think that if Bill had any illegitimate children she would devour them raw

I LOL'ed.

And yes, the video game censorship is something I'm also uncomfortable with. I wanted to add it to the list but I wanted to keep it to actual votes cast.

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: "We just screwed all these people,"

Youtube?

"Throughout the day, Hillary was invariably on the move, striding from one office to another, holding a yellow legal pad and sheaves of notes and documents, and wearing thick bifocals and no make-up."

and

"Moments later, Bill came on the line. "What the f*** are you doing up there?" she screamed. "I want to see you as soon as you get back."

Countless already reported facts in one story.
To think of all that supported/enabled them...Hope you're proud.
One error though...
She didn't make a deal with the Devil.
She IS the Devil.

There has been so much total bullshiat said about Bill and Hillary that none of it is believable anymore.

It just so happens that Obama's record is also much more sound than Hillary's is when voting on the issues.

Obama has a record? I thought he was a junior Senator who is currently missing many votes. I like Obama but he just seems too much of an opportunist, that he doesn't care about his current job, only about campaigning for the next job.

tldnr

Echoic: There's more discrepancies, but there's a short list of relatively important items I put together quickly. These are only votes, not ideological differences on other issues where votes have not been cast.

An important part of Obama also has to do with his time in the Illinois State Senate. He introduced legislation reforming ethics and health care. He also was instrumental in getting legislation passed to reform welfare in the state and how police handle homicide investigations.

The ethics reforms were something needed for a long time, but not something likely to be passed in Illinois. He managed to work with every group needed to get important bills passed.

She is obviously a smart and calculating woman I don't understand why she has allowed herself to be humiliated over and over again.

Hang On Voltaire: allowed herself to be humiliated over and over again.

Isn't that the point of the story?
She had to to get what she's ultimately wanted.

You can always vote for the Family Values Party (new window)

Smart Ass:
Isn't that the point of the story?
She had to to get what she's ultimately wanted.

True but so many people are able to achieve that without being humiliated. I just hope she doesn't win. I have had enough of them

I'm a New Yorker, and we've had to deal with Hillary for the past seven years, so I know what I'm talking about.

She is farked up.

I don't know a single person who likes Hillary, yet she is still getting the votes. It's as if she's sending out flash clones of people to vote for her.

"Hillary is the embodiment of dirty politics and the embodiment of the political climate we've all been feeling for the last seven-eight years."

If you mean she has been the target, oh yeah, definitely.
Now everyone can see what years of paying smear artists like Fox News, Limbaugh, Coulter, et all can do.
That's some serious Pavlovian Clinton hatred there.
They trained you well, Echoic.
Hillary may or may not be the best candidate, but the attacks are just ludicrous and actually have been for some time.

I heard she had Vince Foster murdered.

Kick her in the box.

Sulfus: I'm a New Yorker, and we've had to deal with Hillary for the past seven years, so I know what I'm talking about.

She is farked up.

I don't know a single person who likes Hillary, yet she is still getting the votes. It's as if she's sending out flash clones of people to vote for her.

I guess you don't know many Long Island housewives then. Scary bunch.

Hang On Voltaire: She is obviously a smart and calculating woman I don't understand why she has allowed herself to be humiliated over and over again.

I think it's called codependency. If you read even the Clintons' own version of history, Hillary was the one to push Bill into the governorship and into the White House- he probably would have ended up as a pot-smoking, lecherous law professor otherwise (the last bit wasn't described by them, obviously). Admittedly, Hillary being a woman, she couldn't do it on her own. She lived off of his power, while he got away with sleeping around. The rise to power was mapped out decades in advance, and they've done fairly well for themselves.

The problem is that they can smear just as well as any Fox-based pundit or Freeper- the attacks they've leveled at Obama are bad, and only going to get worse. Imagine anyone (let alone a former president) saying that electing a woman to the White House is the biggest fairy tale he'd ever seen, that it was false hope to think that she could ever survive and that her ideas were pure fantasy. Despite the misogyny of many people, Clinton's still been left relatively untouched by the Dems.

Sulfus: I'm a New Yorker, and we've had to deal with Hillary for the past seven years, so I know what I'm talking about.

She is farked up.

I don't know a single person who likes Hillary, yet she is still getting the votes. It's as if she's sending out flash clones of people to vote for her.

Diebold

Tabloid.

Onager: I wish I had a quarter for every time someone said "I'm a life-long Democrat, but I'll never vote for Clinton! I just don't like her politics." That would buy me a lot of weed.

Well, I'm definitely not a life-long Democrat, but here's another farkin nickle.

If you can boil down your reason for choosing one candidate over the other to one sentence, chances are you're an idiot.

I can't exactly boil my reasons for not voting Hillary down into once sentence, but "I just don't like her politics" is pretty good shorthand.

Wow, she sounds a lot like out current leader .... Dick Cheney.

/except her daughter isn't a dike

Now That's What I Call a Taco!:
Yep. He's the Left's version of a fundie. Anyone that disagrees with your political views is automatically a member of a racist terrorist organization? You, Recall all Republikkans, are worse than Dubya.

Eh, he doesn't actually believe any of that, he's just trolling. I think he's an A_D alt like hillary4real or whatever, though he could be a whoopty alt instead. It's a fairly distinct style of trolling.

Basically, just ignore him and he'll go away or at least get a less stupid name.

This woman is to Democrats what Bush Jr. is to Republicans. A complete and total freaking disgrace.

For this next election, Instead of having to deal with the tremendous stupidity of all the morons who voted for Bush Jr, We all have to deal with all the idiots who have to deal for this powerhungry whoremouth of a woman named Hillary.