Does anyone know where the Iraqi Government is right now?

I_Lost_My_Other_Username: Does anyone know where the Iraqi Government is right now?

It's 9:33 am (Baghdad time). Do YOU know where your government is?

Mmmm...trollalicious headline.

LordJiro: I_Lost_My_Other_Username: Does anyone know where the Iraqi Government is right now?

It's 9:33 am (Baghdad time). Do YOU know where your government is?

Bathroom stalls and meeting with lobbyists?

No, the surge has been a vast success. Bush's war of choice has been prolonged and as a result hundreds of billions of dollars have been funnelled to the military-industrial complex and his campaign contributors.

Oh, and to cut off the trolls before they arrive:

Liberal hate! Defeatocrats! Support our President! Evil ay-rab terrists!

Considering 2007 had the highest number of coalition casualties yet, i'll never understand why people think the surge worked. Also:

FTA: A new World Health Organization study estimates the excess numbers of civilians killed in violence in Iraq from April 2003 through June 2006 at between 101,000 and 224,000. They settled on 151,000 or so as the most likely number.

Holy crapfark! Last I heard WHO was putting it at the 40,000 mark. They're usually pretty conservative with their estimates.

couple of questions:

1.Electricity, water, and other utilities is virtually non-existent, what has the Iraqi government done to stabilize them?
2.With the surge ending next year, what has the Iraqi government done to stabilize the police, military, and civil programs?
3.What has the Iraqi government done to distribute oil revenues to all three factions?

4.What has the Iraqi government done to squelch the Kurdish Nationalist?

5.What has the Iraqi government done to stop the growing influence from Iran?

6.What has the Iraqi government done to keep the peace with Turkey?

7.What has the Iraqi government done to reduce the political and military power of Muqtada Al Sadr and the Mahdi army once American forces leave?

8.What has the Iraqi government done to disarm the Sunni insurgents?
9.What has the Iraqi government done to eradicate Al - Qaeda?
10.What has the Iraqi government done to bring back the refugees that have dispersed through out the region?
11.Thomas Ricks, the author of Fiasco stated on NPR that the Sunni refugees who left would come home to find that the Shia Militias have taken over their personal property. What has the Iraqi government done to rectify this matter?
12.With all the problems in Iraq, why has the Iraqi government decide to take another month long vacation?

It's nice the the bar for success has actually been buried.

We've moved the goal posts to an undisclosed location.

Considering 2007 had the highest number of coalition casualties yet, i'll never understand why people think the surge worked.

Because Iraqi deaths declined a LOT. But I guess that's not important to you, is it, as long as you can pretend the predictions from the Left were correct (they weren't).

1.Electricity, water, and other utilities is virtually non-existent,

...but at higher levels than pre-war Iraq. Thanks for playing.

Et bloody cetera. The Lancet study got shredded, the new WHO study is already looking shaky, and the Democratic and other left-leaning folks were COMPLETELY wrong about the surge. Get over it.

SeismicJizzer: couple of questions:

1.Electricity, water, and other utilities is virtually non-existent, what has the Iraqi government done to stabilize them?
2.With the surge ending next year, what has the Iraqi government done to stabilize the police, military, and civil programs?
3.What has the Iraqi government done to distribute oil revenues to all three factions?

4.What has the Iraqi government done to squelch the Kurdish Nationalist?

5.What has the Iraqi government done to stop the growing influence from Iran?

6.What has the Iraqi government done to keep the peace with Turkey?

7.What has the Iraqi government done to reduce the political and military power of Muqtada Al Sadr and the Mahdi army once American forces leave?

8.What has the Iraqi government done to disarm the Sunni insurgents?
9.What has the Iraqi government done to eradicate Al - Qaeda?
10.What has the Iraqi government done to bring back the refugees that have dispersed through out the region?
11.Thomas Ricks, the author of Fiasco stated on NPR that the Sunni refugees who left would come home to find that the Shia Militias have taken over their personal property. What has the Iraqi government done to rectify this matter?
12.With all the problems in Iraq, why has the Iraqi government decide to take another month long vacation?

13) Why do you think "a couple" means twelve?

SeismicJizzer: couple of questions:
1.Electricity, water, and other utilities is virtually non-existent, what has the Iraqi government done to stabilize them?

It's very late here so I'm just tackling your #1. Iraq had those things under Saddam. We blew them up during that wonderful Shock and Awe campaign. You remember the one where we rain depleted uranium down on residential areas? It's our responsibility to fix the water, electricity, and all the other utilities we blew to hell.

Yes some areas never had them but they aren't the people with a river of shiat running down their sidewalks.

cirby: Considering 2007 had the highest number of coalition casualties yet, i'll never understand why people think the surge worked.

Because Iraqi deaths declined a LOT. But I guess that's not important to you, is it, as long as you can pretend the predictions from the Left were correct (they weren't).

1.Electricity, water, and other utilities is virtually non-existent,

...but at higher levels than pre-war Iraq. Thanks for playing.

Et bloody cetera. The Lancet study got shredded, the new WHO study is already looking shaky, and the Democratic and other left-leaning folks were COMPLETELY wrong about the surge. Get over it.

Yeah, Ron Paul talked about it on Leno a few nights ago; said something like Iraq is in complete chaos, but I do remember him saying 'the southern half of Iraq is now under the control of the Shi-ites.'

Anyway, there's plenty of youtube vids of his time on Leno the other night, i believe 1/7/08. Got many rounds of applause, and took a few shots at 9u11iani and other Repub. candidates as to why he wasn't invited to the debate.

/RON PAUL '08!

Trollmitter,

The article you presented immediately begins with an irrelevant premise: "This has been an immoral war started by neocon warmongers..."

Therefore the surge hasn't worked?

FAIL.

Go masturbate about your failed candidate elsewhere, phillydrifter.

article some blog

coma: 13) Why do you think "a couple" means twelve?

sorry it was orginially 2 questions, but the more I thought about it, the more failed policies set forth by both governments came to mind.

phillydrifter: Yeah, Ron Paul talked about it on Leno a few nights ago; said something like Iraq is in complete chaos, but I do remember him saying 'the southern half of Iraq is now under the control of the Shi-ites.'

Anyway, there's plenty of youtube vids of his time on Leno the other night, i believe 1/7/08. Got many rounds of applause, and took a few shots at 9u11iani and other Repub. candidates as to why he wasn't invited to the debate.

/RON PAUL '08!

Is Michigan the state where you're all going to really surprise us and do much better than all those inaccurate traditional polls show? Were Iowa and NH just clever ploys to lull the country into a false sense of safety before you guys shock the world with your revolution?

Gwendolyn: It's very late here so I'm just tackling your #1. Iraq had those things under Saddam. We blew them up during that wonderful Shock and Awe campaign. You remember the one where we rain depleted uranium down on residential areas? It's our responsibility to fix the water, electricity, and all the other utilities we blew to hell.

Yes some areas never had them but they aren't the people with a river of shiat running down their sidewalks.

The problem is after 5 years we aren't even capable of implementing this. Why isn't this brought up in the republican debate?

Driving Without Pants

I've never moved the goal posts. I'm still holding them to finding those WMDs that were ready to strike at America at any moment. All they've ever found were a handful of shiat that was either two old to work right, we sold it to them in the 1980's, or the UN inspectors already found it.

This shiat didn't start as liberating Iraq from Saddam and that democracy in the middle east bull shiat they are peddling now. It was about an imminent threat to the US. The only thing dangerous about Iraq is what it's doing to our national debt.

cirby: Because Iraqi deaths declined a LOT. But I guess that's not important to you, is it, as long as you can pretend the predictions from the Left were correct (they weren't).

So fewer Iraqis are being killed BUT more coalition troops are dying, therefore the surge is a success? That's interesting reasoning.

I kinda happy about the lower Iraqi death rate, but still. Are we trying to set the goals for success as low as possible now?

cirby: 1.Electricity, water, and other utilities is virtually non-existent,

...but at higher levels than pre-war Iraq.

Every single report I've seen, including those from the Pentagon itself, say the exact opposite. What's your source for this claim?

Good news regarding the surge from, fox news, washington post, or any other "right wing mouthpiece" = "OMG look at the source that's a bunch of bullshiat."

Bad News from Crooks and Liars = "I knew it, those lying neocon bastards."

SeismicJizzer: The problem is after 5 years we aren't even capable of implementing this. Why isn't this brought up in the republican debate?

People do not want to be reminded that the war isn't all sunshine and roses. The veterans know it's hell and the rest of the country do their part by slapping a magnet on their car. In their mind it's best not to talk about these unpleasant things and focus on issues that effect them. Like lowering their taxes and magically funding little Josh's education without any money in the district because they don't want to pay any freaking taxes.

Prospero424:
What's your source for this claim?

Considering what the US army has to say on the subject (new window), I'm gonna say he pulled it out of his ass.

Gwendolyn

The "moving the goalposts" image wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the people who have redefined "success" to the ludicrous point that the surge can be considered a "victory."

Prospero424: Every single report I've seen, including those from the Pentagon itself, say the exact opposite. What's your source for this claim?

We have been great about bringing those things to areas that never had electricity or a water system before. Which is great but they lives for 4,000 or so years without it. It's the fixing the shiat we blew up that isn't happening. That's why the cities have raw sewage running in the streets. : /

they *lived for 4,000....

It's 2 am I'm going to bed.

Gunther: Considering what the US army has to say on the subject (new window), I'm gonna say he pulled it out of his ass.

Gwendolyn: We have been great about bringing those things to areas that never had electricity or a water system before. Which is great but they lives for 4,000 or so years without it. It's the fixing the shiat we blew up that isn't happening. That's why the cities have raw sewage running in the streets. : /

That's what I thought.

It's too early to tell whether the surge has done much of anything. Not to say it hasn't, but it would be surprising if it has.

The deals cut with the Sunnis and Shiites seem to have had the biggest impact, but it's only a political tactic. Shiites want to grab political power, and will as long as they let things slide as they are, but the Sunnis are just waiting for the deal to expire to jump on the Iraqi government and likewise for the Kurds.

Gwendolyn: I'm still holding them to finding those WMDs

You mean the ones that even Saddam thought he had?

It's the fixing the shiat we blew up that isn't happening

When the US rebuilt the civilian infrastructure in Germany and Japan the locals were not out there stealing it each night and trying to fark it all up. There is a modicum of responsibility on the part of those being occupied not to steal the power lines, or blow up the transformers. Iraq is not the first nation bombed and rebuilt by the US.

Driving Without Pants

Article: "Obvious Problem"
Ron Paul: "Obvious Solution"
You: [froth at mouth in anger over the 'lunatic crazy candidate']

It's like a Sartre play that is acted out at a national level.

Iraq is not the first nation bombed and rebuilt by the US

Can we make it the last?

No, actually as far as all of you are concerned, the surge IS WORKING, it should be considered un-American to say otherwise. No plan is perfect, but this particular strategy is achieving enough of our needed goals to work with building a permanent government.

Liberals are like flies buzzing around manure, if they'd just shut up and stop annoying everyone with their constant inane Chicken Little attitude this country would actually get things done. But no, liberals always manage to spin a politically correct ultimatum for everything. They have cost us our missteps in this war, not Bush's policies.

Liberals...have cost us our missteps in this war, not Bush's policies

You have got to be kidding. Do you really believe that?

Bush asked for Six months and $20 Billion. He got 5 years and $500 Billion. If he can't finish what he started with all that, it's nobody's fault but his. For 5 years and $500 Billion we could have a Surge on the MOON.

if they'd just shut up and stop annoying everyone ... this country would actually get things done.

[It's not fascism when we do it picture]

Quelling dissent is un-American. Period. I don't care if you're liberal, conservative, communist, or satanist-- if you don't accept public discussion and dissent as a valuable part of a democracy, you are part of the problem.

skookum: No, actually as far as all of you are concerned, the surge IS WORKING, it should be considered un-American to say otherwise. No plan is perfect, but this particular strategy is achieving enough of our needed goals to work with building a permanent government.

Liberals are like flies buzzing around manure, if they'd just shut up and stop annoying everyone with their constant inane Chicken Little attitude this country would actually get things done. But no, liberals always manage to spin a politically correct ultimatum for everything. They have cost us our missteps in this war, not Bush's policies.

If that were true then the complaints that liberals made in the first place, let alone the whole world, would have kept the country from being invaded. However Bush didn't listen to anyone when he went in. You're just making up a chickenshiat argument in order to dodge responsibility. Playing the victim doesn't work.

By now everyone knows what a great success the surge is. Everybody is wrong

Everything you know is wrong!


/Just forget the words and sing along.
//pops

Iraq:
WMDs
Ties to Al-Qaeda
Immediate threat
Harbors terrorists
Yellow cake
Greeted as liberators
Six months
Not a quagmire

Stay the course.

What do you advocate, kartofelkoph?

kartofelkopf: Iraq:
WMDs
Ties to Al-Qaeda
Immediate threat
Harbors terrorists
Yellow cake
Greeted as liberators
Six months
Not a quagmire

Stay the course.

Hey look over at Iran! They're doing stuff!

/fixed

pf
whoops

I seem to recall the purpose of the surge was to give the Iraqi government time to get its sh*t together. Unfortunately, all they've seemed to agree upon was the need to take more time off.

Meanwhile, more troops has resulted in generally less violence, but by this measure, the answer will always be more troops and I don't think that's sustainable in the long run.

Well, not spending all that money in Iraq is a good first step. I'm of the opinion that the military should be used for actual MILITARY threats to the United States. Iraq was in no position to attack the United States- this is a fact.

So, no military action. As for the GWOT^TM, I'm perfectly okay with increased intelligence spending. I'm fairly realpolitik about this; if defending the US is our primary focus, then increased intelligence efforts are a must. However, our domestic policy (in re: Camp X-Ray, Patriot Act, etc...) is disturbing. So, foreign spying = good. Domestic spying = bad. 'enemy combatants' = bad. Creating new categories of people (essentially making them 'unpersons') is the first step on an awfully slippery slope.

On the other hand, if the intent is to seize territory in the Middle East and maintain US hegemony through control of MEast oil... well, then, I guess we're doing that (albeit in an awfully inefficient manner)

I'm with you on every point you made. Should we have invaded? No, but thats academic now, can you in clear conscience support a total withdrawal of American soldiers before some kind of stability is achieved.

I_Lost_My_Other_Username: Does anyone know where the Iraqi Government is right now?

It's probably time for them to take another vacation. It's great to be a US Taxpayer. We get to pay for the bureaucratic bums over here AND over there.

Absolutely. My concern is not for Iraq's stability. It's for my friends who are on their third tour (one as an MP, one as an engineer) and my countrymen who are dying abroad in defense of... what, exactly?

The 'conscience' approach to foreign affairs is a nice rhetorical tool, but if we applied it broadly, we'd have to get involved in Rwanda, Darfur... maybe even Malaysia. As above, I think the military should be used exclusively in defense of the United States. Further, and this is a larger problem in the European theater as well, out continued military presence removes any incentive the Iraqis have to take responsibility. Easing them into self-governance may be the best way to do so, but establishing permanent bases and, as McCain and others have suggested, staying there indefinitely is not cutting it.

...

That said, there is still a bit of biting conscience in me. So, my proposed solution-- use oil profits to fund either a directly controlled Iraqi military or a mercenary private contractor-style force. The money's there (I personally think it's the reason we're there), so why not put it to use? The Iraqi's get a professional 'peace-keeping' force under their control, and we can gracefully withdrawal (although I imagine a large number of American firms would still be involved over there). If you're being well-compensated to risk your life, head on over to Iraq with our blessings. If you enlisted to protect your country from foreign threats, frak rebuilding someone else's country.