Something other than armed hikers.

People need to realize that the world is not made of rainbows and chocolate. Hiking in the outdoors is nice and enjoyable. I need to get out hiking more in the summer. However there are times when you will run into something that needs more than a can of seasoning.

*Rabid animals. Anything with rabies needs to be killed and killed quick, not only for the safety of other humans, but of the animal population as well. A quality .357 load costs at most $1 per round. A full series of rabies shots costs several thousand dollars.

Personally, unless I had a rifle and could take it out from a distance, I would best try to avoid the rabid animal. However that is not always an option.

*Dangerous animals. While the can of seasoning may work most of the time, people should have the option of being able to pack whatever protection they believe would be most effective. If you want to carry an AR-15 in 50 Beowulf, be my guest. That may be a little on the heavy side for casual hiking, but as long as you aren't doing anything illegal, it's none of my business.

I'd probably go with a can of seasoning and my Old Model Ruger Vaquero in 45 Colt loaded with some heavy hard cast SWC handloads or some Buffalo Bore 325 grain +P loads.

*Dangerous people. You are exploring in the woods and suddenly you realize that you are in the middle of a marijuana grow op. I don't care if it is the best pot available, I'm getting the heck out of there and being armed helps even the odds if the growers don't want you leaving.

Plenty of people do illegal things in the woods. Run across the wrong people and your day can go downhill fast.

So yea, there are plenty of very real reasons why being armed as a precaution is a reasonable action to take. Be it in an urban area, a rural area, or a "Where the hell are we" area.

Crosshair: ummm.... wow

And this is wrong....... how?

Crosshair

All true. But then, if people are allowed to carry guns into the park, it'd make the people doing illegal things get guns to the locations of the illegal things. Plus poaching would soar.

Crosshair: *Dangerous people. You are exploring in the woods and suddenly you realize that you are in the middle of a marijuana grow op. I don't care if it is the best pot available, I'm getting the heck out of there and being armed helps even the odds if the growers don't want you leaving.

Yeah, those potheads are crazy violent.

You could become dinner without this

Spotted Owl burgers, FTW!

\mmmmmm, endangered goodness

[STUPID]

No, what's stupid, subby, is you thinking it's stupid for people to be able to protect themselves when they're in the woods in the middle of nowhere.

That's cool though, if you want argue that the government is more sovereign than the people that empower it, and claim that the government can just call land a "national X" and then strip rights that are exercisable elsewhere, then you have that right - the internet isn't a national forest.

Honestly this sounds reasonable to me. Why settle for merely putting your life at risk of ending due to wild animals when you can also add to the mix assault weapons?

Politics aside, I would not want to be out in Yellowstone and come upon a pissed-off grizzly bear with nothing but Mace on my side. I don't think people should necessarily be permitted to stockpile a hundred automatic weapons and a hundred thousand rounds of ammo in their basements, but running across dangerous predators is a reality for backwoods hikers, and the only weapons we have that can match up to a thousand pounds of muscle, teeth and claws are guns.

How stupid. The bill of rights ends when you enter the national parks.

/sarcasm

-Have we had a rash of angry wildlife shooting rampages I haven't heard about? What festering insecurities are we trying to solve with macho bullshiat NOW?

LordJiro: Crosshair

All true. But then, if people are allowed to carry guns into the park, it'd make the people doing illegal things get guns to the locations of the illegal things. Plus poaching would soar.

If they are doing illegal things like that, what makes you think they are not armed already?

"Bob, put the gun away before we go harvest the pot, it's illegal to have in the park!"

ComicBookGuy: Yeah, those potheads are crazy violent.

No, but the growers are kinda protective of their stuff.

Crap! If people are allowed to carry guns in National Parks, I will have to start mugging people in Washington DC. Hooray for gun control!

Hey - we already carry on BLM land...

So what about the Statue of Liberty? Isn't that a state park?

/Knows Liberty Island is a Police State
//Not gonna try anything stupid
///But still...

What could possibly become dinner? Anything that darn well threatens me, that's what.

I spend a lot of my leisure time hiking on trails in the Poconos, including portions of the Appalachian Trail. Many of these trails cross through bear country, not to mention the occasional pot field. I'd love to be prepared to meet threats of both a human and animal nature, but the anti-gun types have already decided to leave me at the mercy of whatever I might encounter out in the wilderness.

Keep the bear bombs, I want to carry a shotgun, rifle or handgun, as might surroundings dictate.

Fu

Oh yeah look out tree-huggers, it's open season

Aye aye aye. Just tell my why. Why would you ever need a gun in a national park? Never, in hundreds of nights camping including close encounters with bears and rabid animals, have I ever needed a gun to accomplish and end I can't accomplish with my brain. We're humans, we should spend our time on more important things than lobbying for the right to shoot Yogi the Bear. Like camping. You hide your food from the bears in a tree, you don't kill the bear.

/or whatever
//flame on

LordJiro: Crosshair

All true. But then, if people are allowed to carry guns into the park, it'd make the people doing illegal things get guns to the locations of the illegal things. Plus poaching would soar.

Take into account gangs. They're already congregating in parks that you and I just want to hike and fish in. It's not enough that I have to worry about a bear, I have to worry about humans at parks not there for hiking and fishing.

With a gun. Preferrably a repeating one.

Not necessarily worried about pot growers, more like crazy people in general. I live in Georgia, and a girl was recently murdered up on the Appalachian trail by a crazy guy who probably has other victims. Alot of running trails are not safe. There are no police. They are open to everyone. Single female runners have to be very, very careful. Why not put the fear of getting shot into a potential would-be killer?

You can't be paranoid, of course, but still.

The Idiot Emperor will probably OK this. He seems to be seriously in favor or pretty much every bad idea that comes along.

Demon Cleaner: Aye aye aye. Just tell my why. Why would you ever need a gun in a national park? Never, in hundreds of nights camping including close encounters with bears and rabid animals, have I ever needed a gun to accomplish and end I can't accomplish with my brain. We're humans, we should spend our time on more important things than lobbying for the right to shoot Yogi the Bear. Like camping. You hide your food from the bears in a tree, you don't kill the bear.

/or whatever
//flame on

FAIL.

ComicBookGuy: Crosshair: *Dangerous people. You are exploring in the woods and suddenly you realize that you are in the middle of a marijuana grow op. I don't care if it is the best pot available, I'm getting the heck out of there and being armed helps even the odds if the growers don't want you leaving.

Yeah, those potheads are crazy violent.

"I don't wanna mess with no reefer addicts!"

I thru-hiked the entire Appalachian Trail last year. In all 2174 miles, I never saw a single person or animal that made me feel that I needed a firearm. Its bad enough that the trail skirts many hunting areas....now we'd have to watch for people with guns? no thank you. The A.T. (and other national parks) are the some of the safest places in america. In the 70 + years since the A.T. became official, there have only been something like 5 or 6 major crimes. If everyone starts carrying guns....that number will go up. I could even see accidental shootings going up. I fell at least 10 times during my hike. What If I was carrying a gun and it discharged? Just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Most rational hikers wouldn't carry a firearm anyway, because they don't want to carry the extra weight.

Crosshair: *Dangerous people.

Like yourself.

Rabid animals? Joking, yes? Dangerous animals? Name one you need a gun for in the lower 48 states that you are likely to see in a park? Bears? Wear a bear bell, done. Mountain lion? I've seen 2 in the last 3 years....

OH, and did I mention I've been a National Park Ranger for the last 8 years, living IN a park the whole time, and I've never shot anything but a deer with a broken hip (carelessly hit by a speeding visitor's car). This place is full of snakes, coyotes, mountain lions, etc. but you don't see me going Yosemite Sam on everything in site.

The rules are very simple. You are welcome to bring a firearm into the park, it simply has to be broken down, unloaded, and in a case. Plenty of folks transit through our park on the way to hunting grounds in the National Forest next door, but they don't seem to have trouble doing this (at least most can figure it out).

SO no, we don't need people armed to the teeth shooting each other, animals, or themselves while visiting National Parks and Monuments.

ComicBookGuy: Yeah, those potheads are crazy violent.

Yea, you stumble on a grow op worth many hundreds of thousands of dollars and see how happy the growers are to see you. Chances are, not very. You are miles from anyone else and there is plenty of places for them to dispose of the body. People have been killed over lesser things.

Ideally, the "lunch" would be the probably drunk, definitely inexperienced hunter who would miss the grizzly or mountain lion with the first shot, only to discover enraged carnivores don't give foolish marksmen a second chance to make a good impression.

For everyone else whose worried, don't panic, this will only last until the probably drunk, definitely inexperienced hunter mistakes some toddler for a grizzly or mountain lion and kills it, is subsequently arrested for manslaughter, acquitted, and then sued down to his tighty-whities along with the Forest Service, the US Government, Smith&Wesson, and whoever else the parents can target. Shouldn't take more than ten or fifteen years, tops.

In Yellowstone's backcountry, yeah I can see wanting a gun.

On the floor of the Yosemite Valley? Maybe not. You miss that bear rooting in the garbage and you'll hit some church group in the next campsite. And you'll also be tempted to use it on your fellow "campers" playing deathmetal at 2AM one tent over.

They really ought to do this one on a case by case basis.

Demon Cleaner: Aye aye aye. Just tell my why. Why would you ever need a gun in a national park? Never, in hundreds of nights camping including close encounters with bears and rabid animals, have I ever needed a gun to accomplish and end I can't accomplish with my brain. We're humans, we should spend our time on more important things than lobbying for the right to shoot Yogi the Bear. Like camping. You hide your food from the bears in a tree, you don't kill the bear.

/or whatever
//flame on

I'm going to hip shoot and say you've only visited ONE national park. Anywhere. No American is going to shoot your farking precious Yogi. That's why we go to the parks. However, it's not the animals that are the problem, it's the suckas that think a "park" is somehow their "turf" now. This is a problem in the southern border states.

I'm not worried about the bear, I'm worried about the human dragging over drugs and 10 families daughters into subversive work.

kaedric: I thru-hiked the entire Appalachian Trail last year. In all 2174 miles, I never saw a single person or animal that made me feel that I needed a firearm. Its bad enough that the trail skirts many hunting areas....now we'd have to watch for people with guns? no thank you. The A.T. (and other national parks) are the some of the safest places in america. In the 70 + years since the A.T. became official, there have only been something like 5 or 6 major crimes. If everyone starts carrying guns....that number will go up. I could even see accidental shootings going up. I fell at least 10 times during my hike. What If I was carrying a gun and it discharged? Just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Most rational hikers wouldn't carry a firearm anyway, because they don't want to carry the extra weight.

This might suggest there are animals out there that do attack people

Reasonable protection for one's self in the wild is not a ridiculous request. A farking assault rifle, as Crosshair mentioned when he discussed someone bringing an AR-15 along on a hike, is just plain asinine.

If you want to play nature boy and be out in the wild, be my guest. You will have a hard time selling the public on the worthiness of assault rifles in national parks...or will it be the old tagline "If we aren't allowed to carry assault rifles into national parks, only the bears will have assault rifles!"?

Federal land +'Congress Shall make no law...'yaddy yaddy yada = how is the ban not considered unconstitutional?

Crosshair, your post not only sums up my impressions here, but your profile is... awesome.

ACEllis: And this is wrong....... how?

Because beforehand, people would go ahead and shoot the wildlife in the national parks, which were created for the express purpose of not seeing the animals get shot. Basically, a couple assholes ruin it for everybody. Don't like it? Talk to the assholes.

kaedric: I thru-hiked the entire Appalachian Trail last year. In all 2174 miles, I never saw a single person or animal that made me feel that I needed a firearm.

Using that logic, you should get rid of your smoke detectors. You've never had any need for them, so why would you ever?

Its bad enough that the trail skirts many hunting areas....now we'd have to watch for people with guns? no thank you. The A.T. (and other national parks) are the some of the safest places in america. In the 70 + years since the A.T. became official, there have only been something like 5 or 6 major crimes. If everyone starts carrying guns....that number will go up.

Right, and when the hardcore criminals know that average lawful people can carry in the national parks, they'll flock there to conduct business. They keep up on this type of law, and I'm sure they'll be the first to know.

I could even see accidental shootings going up.

Yes, you could see.

I fell at least 10 times during my hike. What If I was carrying a gun and it discharged? Just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Most rational hikers wouldn't carry a firearm anyway, because they don't want to carry the extra weight.

This isn't a Lifetime drama. Guns don't go off when bumped.

rangerdavid: Crosshair: *Dangerous people.

Like yourself.

Rabid animals? Joking, yes? Dangerous animals? Name one you need a gun for in the lower 48 states that you are likely to see in a park? Bears? Wear a bear bell, done. Mountain lion? I've seen 2 in the last 3 years....

OH, and did I mention I've been a National Park Ranger for the last 8 years, living IN a park the whole time, and I've never shot anything but a deer with a broken hip (carelessly hit by a speeding visitor's car). This place is full of snakes, coyotes, mountain lions, etc. but you don't see me going Yosemite Sam on everything in site.

The rules are very simple. You are welcome to bring a firearm into the park, it simply has to be broken down, unloaded, and in a case. Plenty of folks transit through our park on the way to hunting grounds in the National Forest next door, but they don't seem to have trouble doing this (at least most can figure it out).

SO no, we don't need people armed to the teeth shooting each other, animals, or themselves while visiting National Parks and Monuments.

Well rangerdavid, since you've holed up yourself in JUST ONE park, may I remind you that there are parks where real dangers exist. Yellowstone comes to mind. Mind you a shot from a .22 isn't going to bring down a buffalo, but yes, some animals can take down humans. Or did your animal-cleansed-for-safety protocol get in the way? It's humans we have to worry about.

Last time I checked, to become a Park Ranger in 2008 requires education and experience in law enforcement. Not animal management and education, but police activities.

rangerdavid: Name one you need a gun for in the lower 48 states that you are likely to see in a park?

Grizzly Bear, Brown Bear, Moose, American Copperhead, Rattlesnake, Cougars, Mountain lion. Those are just the ones that I can think of off the top of my head.

Like yourself.

Only if you are trying to harm me or steal from me. You leave me alone, I leave you alone.

ComicBookGuy: Yeah, those potheads are crazy violent.

I hope your joking. 2 things you pray never happens to you exploring the forest: Coming between a momma bear and her cub and coming anywhere near a grow operation.

LordJiro: All true. But then, if people are allowed to carry guns into the park, it'd make the people doing illegal things get guns to the locations of the illegal things. Plus poaching would soar.

Your first point assumes they don't already have guns which I find highly unlikely to say the least. As to poaching, thats my main concern as well but stiffening the penalty would be an easy solution.


I'm usually on the fence in general when it comes to guns and I'm way too comfortable in the woods to worry about the dipshaits anyone else might be worried about (they're easily avoided) so I'm not sure I give a shiat either way on this one.

fanbladesaresharp:

I'm going to hip shoot and say you've only visited ONE national park. Anywhere. No American is going to shoot your farking precious Yogi. That's why we go to the parks. However, it's not the animals that are the problem, it's the suckas that think a "park" is somehow their "turf" now. This is a problem in the southern border states.

I'm not worried about the bear, I'm worried about the human dragging over drugs and 10 families daughters into subversive work.

Last winter our hiking group in the Anza Borrego state park in SoCal got shot at by some dipshiat Marines.

Bullets from high caliber guns go a long long way in the desert. Even the ricochets.

Gosling: ACEllis: And this is wrong....... how?

Because beforehand, people would go ahead and shoot the wildlife in the national parks, which were created for the express purpose of not seeing the animals get shot. Basically, a couple assholes ruin it for everybody. Don't like it? Talk to the assholes.

I'm sure there a ways to seriously deter such assholes. I have to prescribe to mistahtom's logic. Unconstitutional.

According to the piece, people can still have their guns in the park if they're kept somewhere safe like the trunk of their car. What's wrong with that? Why do they suddenly have the urge to strap 'em on as they go traipsing through the parks? Throughout the country, hundreds of thousands of park visitors are in and out year-round without a firearm at their sides. All this talk about "but, but what about bears?" is just fear mongering.

State_College_Arsonist: What could possibly become dinner? Anything that darn well threatens me, that's what.

I spend a lot of my leisure time hiking on trails in the Poconos, including portions of the Appalachian Trail. Many of these trails cross through bear country, not to mention the occasional pot field. I'd love to be prepared to meet threats of both a human and animal nature, but the anti-gun types have already decided to leave me at the mercy of whatever I might encounter out in the wilderness.

Keep the bear bombs, I want to carry a shotgun, rifle or handgun, as might surroundings dictate.

Since you seem to think you'd need a gun while hiking, I was expecting you to be providing examples of past situations where one would have been handy. But no, the best you could come up with was the vague threat of "bear country".

Seems to me that you've been left to the mercy of... nothing whatsoever.

sir.steve.h: Crosshair, your post not only sums up my impressions here, but your profile is... awesome.

Thanks, I hate trying to respond to people who have an empty profile so I try to keep mine accurate and up to date. I do need to do more work on it though, been putting off some stuff.

USP .45

I failed because I know how not to get eaten by a grizzly and haven't seen some movie? People have been not getting eaten by animals way longer than they've had hollow points. Its actually pretty easy.

USP .45: FAIL.

I don't think you paid attention to the part of that movie where that numbnuts thought he could walk right up and be friends with a Kodiak.

rangerdavid: Crosshair: *Dangerous people.

Like yourself.

Rabid animals? Joking, yes? Dangerous animals? Name one you need a gun for in the lower 48 states that you are likely to see in a park? Bears? Wear a bear bell, done. Mountain lion? I've seen 2 in the last 3 years....


I guarantee many more have seen you. And wearing a bear bell in the woods is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Why don;t you just suggest they stay home and watch TV.

Gosling: ACEllis: And this is wrong....... how?

Because beforehand, people would go ahead and shoot the wildlife in the national parks, which were created for the express purpose of not seeing the animals get shot. Basically, a couple assholes ruin it for everybody. Don't like it? Talk to the assholes.

Your commenting out of ignorance.

Hunting out of season = illegal.

Hunting with wrong type of weapon = illegal.

Hunting with the wrong weapon in the wrong season = illegal.

Poaching protected species = illegal.

Hunters are used to dealing with these types of regulations, and they aren't going to start breaking them simply because they can bring firearms into national parks.

Total asshat morons will, but they wouldn't even bother to check if there was such a prohibition in the first place.

/not even a hunter

Crosshair: Grizzly Bear, Brown Bear, Moose, American Copperhead, Rattlesnake, Cougars, Mountain lion. Those are just the ones that I can think of off the top of my head.

All of which you can interact with in a way that doesn't require shooting, or learn to avoid entirely. Next time read your field guide. Or get a field guide. For example:

Both bears: Make some noise to ward them off. Look for bear tracks or bear poo to know if there's one nearby.
Snakes: Keep a safe distance. Turn over rocks with sticks to look for them.
Lions, cougars: Keep a REALLY safe distance. If they eye you, for the love of God don't run, because then their chasing instinct kicks in and you're screwed.

You should definitely be able to bring a gun to a Zoo, especially in San Francisco.

coma: I don't think you paid attention to the part of that movie where that numbnuts thought he could walk right up and be friends with a Kodiak.

You're arguing against yourself.

He was able to walk up and be friends with a Kodiak, but only 99% of the time.

Despite human intelligence and understanding of wildlife, it won't save you in tooth and nail situations.