The diebold machine will display the preprogrammed tally no matter how many times they ask it.

If it messes up the Clintons, I am for it.

Nice. Thank you Kucinich.

So Kucinich thinks he can get 7 votes instead of 6?

I agree with Congressman Kucinich

FTFA: . . . He added, "Ever since the 2000 election - and even before - the American people have been losing faith in the belief that their votes were actually counted. This recount isn't about who won 39% of 36% or even 1%. It's about establishing whether 100% of the voters had 100% of their votes counted exactly the way they cast them.". . .

Why that kookie lil' Ferengi

/bet his wife gives him great oo-mox

Durendal: you really should try treading the article before you start typing.

shiat, he just won my vote if he makes it to the big time.

He's missed the obvious campaign funding opportunity of getting his wife to sit on a giant stamp pad and sell butt-print posters.

/ oh, like you *never* thought of that. Riiight.

Durendal: So Kucinich thinks he can get 7 votes instead of 6?

Hello there, Mr. Did-Not-RTFA.

Anyway, Kucinich deserves the tag for this. Well, for that and for managing to land a 6-foot tall redhead hottie with a tongue stud as a wife, despite being a rather dweebish individual who is twice her age. As I've said before here, if I were Kucinich I'd use that in my campaign promos, and point out that, compared to that accomplishment, ending the Iraq war and solving the nation's economic problems should be a piece of cake for him. If he could accomplish something as seemingly impossible as this, what couldn't he do?

Why does America have a voting system comparable to that of Liberia?

NewportBarGuy: Why does America have a voting system comparable to that of Liberia?

Bosnia was fixed by the UN.

This method worked pretty well for a long time until some sore loser asshat decided they were to complicated for his stupid voters:

I'm gonna laugh when his vote count goes down.

Not gonna happen. There's no paper trail to recount...

McManus_brothers: I'm gonna laugh when his vote count goes down.

I know it's a radical concept around here, but try to RTFA before commenting next time. For your own good.

Shaggy_C: Not gonna happen. There's no paper trail to recount...

exactly what I was thinking. Isn't a "recount" somebody at Diebold hitting "refresh" on their browser these days?

"Ever since the 2000 election - and even before - the American people have been losing faith in the belief that their votes were actually counted. This recount isn't about who won 39% of 36% or even 1%. It's about establishing whether 100% of the voters had 100% of their votes counted exactly the way they cast them."

I do hate not having a receipt -- and the fact that Diebold is a private corporation that won't disclose what the fark is going on in its software.

"GATES OF HELL"

-Way to tell em Huckabee!

Kucinich

"Serious and credible reports, allegations, and rumors have surfaced in the past few days...I


How about innuendos or speculation? But, at least one recount should be standard procedure for every election.

DarnoKonrad: "Ever since the 2000 election - and even before - the American people have been losing faith in the belief that their votes were actually counted. This recount isn't about who won 39% of 36% or even 1%. It's about establishing whether 100% of the voters had 100% of their votes counted exactly the way they cast them."

I do hate not having a receipt -- and the fact that Diebold is a private corporation that won't disclose what the fark is going on in its software.

And aren't they regular GOP donors?

redoctober65: Why that kookie lil' Ferengi

/bet his wife gives him great oo-mox

I feel dirty for understanding the above post in full.

SubBass49: DarnoKonrad: "Ever since the 2000 election - and even before - the American people have been losing faith in the belief that their votes were actually counted. This recount isn't about who won 39% of 36% or even 1%. It's about establishing whether 100% of the voters had 100% of their votes counted exactly the way they cast them."

I do hate not having a receipt -- and the fact that Diebold is a private corporation that won't disclose what the fark is going on in its software.

And aren't they regular GOP donors?


Hell if I know, Canada uses all paper ballots tho, and they get results in 24 hours -- apparently that ain't fast enough for the USA.

In an America free from the machinations of the MIC and the insane desire to perpetually dominate global affairs, Feingold/Kucinich 2008 would be an amazing ticket.

Since every time a candidate loses an election in the US anymore, it seems to be the fault of the ballot/election committee/machines, how about if we do this:

Issue each candidate two red challenge flags when their declare their candidacy. If they throw one and can't prove anything, we fine them $1/vote cast in the election. If they win, they get their flag back and we redo the election.

What I find amazing is the rush to upgrade all voting machines in the US.... why did we go digital so quickly?


/prefers to have votes on things like paper
//you know, cause of paper trails
///data can more easily be altered/erased because all the votes in a machine could fit onto a chip smaller than any of my fingernails

Isotope:

exactly what I was thinking. Isn't a "recount" somebody at Diebold hitting "refresh" on their browser these days?

The "electronic voting machines" in question are essentially scantrons - the original ballots that people filled out prior to scanning are all still available for recount. If such a recount were to occur, it would be by hand count of said ballots, likely with a representative of each person on the ballot present in each location the counting was taking place in.

However, while I support the premise of ensuring that votes are counted correctly, I would not expect discrepancies in this case - exit polls matched the official results, and while there was a disparity between hand counted and machine counted votes, if you break it down by location, more heavily populated areas were far more likely than rural areas to have machine counted votes. Know what else tends to be different between more densely populated areas and rural areas? Demographics and political opinion. This is a classic case of correlation not causation.

To add to my previous post, I either want there to be a discrepancy if a recount is done, thereby increasing the pressure on open, verifiable voting methods, or I don't want the recount to go through. If it were to occur and the results were to match, it would be a giant blemish on the attempts of people to get verifiable voting where it matters - in the touchscreen voting machines where there is no paper trail.

Jon Snow: Feingold/Kucinich 2008


Jon Snow...sometimes I really look up to you.
Sometimes...I facepalm.

This is one of those times.

Shaggy_C: Jon Snow...sometimes I really look up to you.
Sometimes...I facepalm.

This is one of those times.

I know that it isn't realistic, and perhaps it isn't even desirable given the cards in play. I'm just one of those kooky kids that thinks it wouldn't be that bad if we had single payer health care, increased education spending, decriminalization of some drugs, equal rights for gays, a firm GHG target, and all that other Commie shiat that modern Western democracies have.

I do appreciate that you kept the facepalm small though. :)

Out of curiosity, what policies do Feingold and Kucinich advocate that you dislike?

bronyaur1: If it messes up the Clintons, I am for it.

i'm for it no matter who it messes up.

he's exactly right, if someone questions the results, there has to be an effort to verify them. if the citizens can't hold some type of oversight over the election process, things would be rather broken.

Jon Snow: Shaggy_C: Jon Snow...sometimes I really look up to you.
Sometimes...I facepalm.

This is one of those times.

I know that it isn't realistic, and perhaps it isn't even desirable given the cards in play. I'm just one of those kooky kids that thinks it wouldn't be that bad if we had single payer health care, increased education spending, decriminalization of some drugs, equal rights for gays, a firm GHG target, and all that other Commie shiat that modern Western democracies have.

I do appreciate that you kept the facepalm small though. :)

Out of curiosity, what policies do Feingold and Kucinich advocate that you dislike?

i don't know much about feingold but i like kucinich.

he might be more liberal than i would support in a different america, but i thing he gets it right on much more important issues for the time being.

For every Dem who thought Bush stole 2000 there is undoubtably a REP who still thinks Kennedy stole 1960. If GM or Walmart can account for every penny of their billions of dollars/assets one would think the government could actually track a few thousand votes at the local level.

Shaggy_C: Not gonna happen. There's no paper trail to recount...

Back in 2006 when the district I voted in first got touch screen systems, the machine would record your vote and also print out a paper hardcopy in case a recount was necessary. I've never understood why this sort of thing wasn't universial.

Integrity, Kucinich has it.

There's a waiter at a Vietnamese restaurant that I go to that's a dead ringer for Kucinich. He's kinda short and has that same dyed-jet-black combover.

burndtdan: i don't know much about feingold but i like kucinich.

If you like Kucinich, you'll love Feingold. He's an actual Liberal, rather than a Hillary Clinton Democrat. He's a civil rights champion and a budget hawk. He supports some sensible gun control legislation but is an outspoken advocate of the 2nd Amendment. He's a Rhodes Scholar and an honors Harvard Law grad. He was the only Senator to vote against the PATRIOT Act in 2001.

Partisans on both sides don't like him because he talks the talk and walks the walk. He doesn't use "provide for the general welfare" to grossly inflate spending, and he doesn't call for fiscal responsibility while advocating unchecked military spending.

Fart_Machine: Back in 2006 when the district I voted in first got touch screen systems, the machine would record your vote and also print out a paper hardcopy in case a recount was necessary. I've never understood why this sort of thing wasn't universial.

Well it is a corporation taking your vote, look at it like a cost saving measure. You aren't suggesting they just p*ss money away like some communist regime are you?

Honestly, If I showed up to vote in my country and saw a Diebold I would just hork a huge goober on the screen and be taken away to the political dissent work camp by the fatherland police.

But yeah, if pretending to take part in an election turns you on.

His IMDB entry says he is 5'7". He is actually 1" taller than I am. I love it when I find out that celebrities that are made fun of for being short are actually taller than I am. Tom Cruise is supposedly 5'7" as well.

Stupid height-ism

/My girlfriend is also 6' and has reddish-brown (auburn) hair

good for him.


/one of his constituents

He is doing this for Obama, they are curious about hand ballots being tossed out and the huge percentage difference between Diebold machines and paper ballots, and how it looks to have given Hillary quite the boost.

/did not rtfa

The disparity between the hand counts and the diebold counts matter. They matter a lot!


Is there a discrepency between hand count and diebold counties for the republican's too?

Also, and this is the question I really want to know, is there a discrepancy between the EXIT polls and the final tally in each county? We've seen all the exit poll results about demographics and who they voted for. But we have not been given the numbers about what % of those polled voted for whom! Where the exit polls off? Do the exit poll numbers reflect the numbers we see in hand count counties vs. diebold counties?

If anyone has any link to the exit poll numbers for NH, I'd love to see em.

Shaggy_C: Not gonna happen. There's no paper trail to recount...

uhhh... it's all paper trail, buddy.
NH Primaries are all done by paper ballot and fed into machines
There are no "press this screen to vote" machines in NH primary.

sparkmysmeg: Fart_Machine: Back in 2006 when the district I voted in first got touch screen systems, the machine would record your vote and also print out a paper hardcopy in case a recount was necessary. I've never understood why this sort of thing wasn't universial.

Well it is a corporation taking your vote, look at it like a cost saving measure. You aren't suggesting they just p*ss money away like some communist regime are you?

Honestly, If I showed up to vote in my country and saw a Diebold I would just hork a huge goober on the screen and be taken away to the political dissent work camp by the fatherland police.

But yeah, if pretending to take part in an election turns you on.

Jon Snow: Out of curiosity, what policies do Feingold and Kucinich advocate that you dislike?

I find Feingold to be a bit of an opportunist with his Bush bashing; plus, I find the McCain-Feingold campaign finance bill an atrocious affront to free speech.

I don't mind Kucinich so much, but I think his foreign policy ideas are outlandishly naive (A department of peace made up of the US Army/Navy/Air Force/Marines? WTF? Just imagine when the next neocon coming into office and bringing 'peace' to everyone in the world. Ugh!) Plus, I think he's compassionate to a fault on things like crime; he's willing to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone in poverty, no matter how heinous their activities. I guess that's the main problem I have, both domestic and foreign - he seems to think no one is to blame for their own actions. I think that's going too far.

What a pathetic tool.
Hillary is the winner and no matter how many tin foil hats these people put on, its not going to make Mr. Hussein Obama any blacker.
Hillary has already won the nomination fair and square.

Sorry boneheads, your savior Obama is done for. Quit whining and get ready for president Hillary

keithgabryelski: There are no "press this screen to vote" machines in NH primary.



Diebold machines can be paper fed?

The_OcO: the huge percentage difference between Diebold machines and paper ballots,

Not to mention the difference in the polls before the election and the results.

keithgabryelski: Shaggy_C: Not gonna happen. There's no paper trail to recount...

uhhh... it's all paper trail, buddy.
NH Primaries are all done by paper ballot and fed into machines
There are no "press this screen to vote" machines in NH primary.

Citation:

Enough with the "Diebold Hacked the NH Primary" Lunacy
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/10/02623/2264/85/434176 (can't link to dKos)

Every ballot cast in New Hampshire except those few cast by the handicapped is written on a piece of paper. It's redundant to say this after the previous comment about touchscreen voting, but let's make it clear: in New Hampshire there is a paper trail.

The Diebold Accuvote-TS has been shown to be a piece of crap. The Diebold Accuvote-OS, the machine used in New Hampshire, has much of the same hardware and runs much of the same tabulation software, so these machines could conceivably be hacked. However, the incentive for hacking them is not very great, because unlike with the paperless voting, again, there's the paper trail. So if there were ever a recount-and there was after the 2004 election, when a survey of New Hampshire voting districts chosen by the Nader campaign showed there was virtually no difference between the scanned tabulation and the hand recount-the malfeasance would be easily discovered.

Many folks immediately suspect that any election results they found surprising-and whether they know enough about local and statewide voting patterns to be surprised is always a good question-are most easily explained by malfeasance by the Diebold corporation or exploitation of its machines. There are many problems for these folks who look for the most exotic (and maybe reassuring) explanation for an election result they don't like, but in this case, let's start out with a fairly basic one: voters in every town in New Hampshire cast their vote on a paper ballot, and in more than half of the towns in New Hampshire, the paper ballots are counted by hand.

The blog entry goes on with more information.

keithgabryelski: The blog entry goes on with more information.

Fair enough; thanks for the info!