Why? Because they're always running out of time to nip things in the bud?

If any TV show or movie has ever done anything, we should not use similar ideas to drive policy?

FAIL.

Torturing people always works quickly and gets great information, so why not sell our souls for a nice warm feeling of false security?

I like our new and improved reality based on tv shows. I've been trying to get into shape for quite a while but in our new tv based reality, I don't need to bother because every family sitcom in which there is a hot wife, the husband is fat, lazy, and gets away with doing lots of stupid things. I can do that!

Yay for tv show based reality!

Shaggy_C: If any TV show or movie has ever done anything, we should not use similar ideas to drive policy?

FAIL.

Call me a tin foil hat conspiracy nut if you want to, but considering A) it's Fox, B) the over all timing of the show, and C) the general theme of "middle eastern people are evil", I think it's more likely that the show is promoting policy rather than driving it.

9/11!!!1!!!1!

The sad fact is that the TV show 24 would not be popular if it did not resonate with a certain segment of our society.
On occasion here, we have all seen a few Farkers enthusiastically volunteer to torture someone, if they were asked.
And I would suggest, it is these people, regardless of which side they are on, who need to be cleaned out of society.

They are the enemy.
The are terrorists.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Shaggy_C: If any TV show or movie has ever done anything, we should not use similar ideas to drive policy?

FAIL.

I'm curious, how old are you? I just can't imagine anyone falling through the cracks like you have, you must be just starting out in life, 19ish?

Your statements are profoundly churlish, you realize that yes?

hej: Call me a tin foil hat conspiracy nut if you want to, but considering A) it's Fox, B) the over all timing of the show, and C) the general theme of "middle eastern people are evil", I think it's more likely that the show is promoting policy rather than driving it.

But he's done the exact same thing in previous seasons with Chinese enemies, white-guy enemies (Russians, I believe), and even people within the United States. I mean, is this that liberal Political Correctness that made the makers of 'The Sum of All Fears' change the terrorists from Muslims to Russians? It's like if it seems too real, we can't use it as entertainment. That's just silly. The only reason anyone uses it for comparison purposes is that it's 1) Current and popular and 2) Of similar subject matter. It's not like the congresscritters are taking their entire cues from the show; it's just there for illustrative purposes during arguments, natch.

Well, the campaigns seem like they're based on The Amazing Race, with a bit of Survivor and Biggest Loser thrown in.

For its first two seasons, 24 seemed to realize the grey areas it was touching. After that, it became a war-on-terror lovefest, and even military officers asked Fox to tone it down.

Shaggy_C: If any TV show or movie has ever done anything, we should not use similar ideas to drive policy?

FAIL.

Considering all the "investigative" techniques outside of old fashioned police grunt work fail time and again on the show, I believe you may have a point.

Phil Moskowitz: Your statements are profoundly churlish, you realize that yes?

I'm sorry I called out the fatal flaw in the argument; I mean, really, let's play with the quote:

Old and busted: Modeling your anti-terrorism plan after Jack Bauer is like modeling your police efforts after Barney Fife.

New hotness: Modeling your anti-terrorism plan after Jack Bauer is like modeling your healthcare policy after Sicko.

But I'm sure you'll ignore this and continue namecalling.

TFA

It happened in the civil-rights movement, in the Red scare, happened when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, when the nation plunged into World War I, when John Adams was offended by the French, and Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus.

only one major abridgment of civil liberties in time of national emergency - Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus during the Civil War - stands justified by hindsight.

Fixed

hej: Shaggy_C: If any TV show or movie has ever done anything, we should not use similar ideas to drive policy?

FAIL.

Call me a tin foil hat conspiracy nut if you want to, but considering A) it's Fox, B) the over all timing of the show, and C) the general theme of "middle eastern people are evil", I think it's more likely that the show is promoting policy rather than driving it.

Doesn't work that well. TV tells us what we want to hear, to sell us more minivans, beer, and weight-loss plans.

There *was* a TV show pictched, called "DHS: The Series", which got a big thumbs up from the white house, and like most of the 9/11 hysteria, it was a complete fiction. If you're looking for one story that captures the last seven years, this is it.

Link (new window)
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2004/02/28/homeland_securi ty_meets_home_theater/

CaesarSneezy: Fixed

Funny, the author calls out all of the Republican abridgments of civil rights, but ignores the most blatant. I'm sure it was just a slight oversight on their part...

And since I'm feeling like such a right-wing nutjob today, I think I need to address something from this opinion piece:

The authorities would just come into your home, grab your mother, your brother, your dad, and take them away. No warning, no warrant, no appeal...families never learned what happened to their loved ones. Or why. People were taken and that was it. The government was not accountable.

My Weeners was a vague pride that those kinds of things can't happen here.

...

It can't happen here, I said.

But of course, it already has.

The idiot author is saying that we literally have people being dragged from their homes from across the country. Who exactly is blurring the line between fact and fiction here?

Shaggy_C: Funny, the author calls out all of the Republican abridgments of civil rights, but ignores the most blatant. I'm sure it was just a slight oversight on their part...

Damn hotlinking DemonCraps.

sigdiamond2000: Damn hotlinking DemonCraps.

Working for me; perhaps it's a problem with IE or something. Meh, point still stands. FYI It's a picture of one of FDR's Japanese Internment Camps. If you couldn't figure it out ;)

Shaggy_C: CaesarSneezy: Fixed

Funny, the author calls out all of the Republican abridgments of civil rights, but ignores the most blatant. I'm sure it was just a slight oversight on their part...

I don't get your meaning here. Republican? Like Lincoln?

CaesarSneezy: I don't get your meaning here. Republican? Like Lincoln?

Yea, just thought it was funny the author called him out by name and specific activity while the rest were just generalities. Meh, I'm making a big deal out of nothing, don't worry about it.

Shaggy_C

Oh, you DNRTFA and you think I added all that to replace what was struck out. I added Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus to the end of the author's list and struck out where he defended it as an exception. Most of the author's list of civil rights abuses were Democrat-issued, if it matters to you. I just thought it was bizarre that all throughout the article the author talked about not ever crossing lines we have in place and then goes ahead and says "except Lincoln" without any explanation.

Shaggy_C: CaesarSneezy: Fixed

Funny, the author calls out all of the Republican abridgments of civil rights, but ignores the most blatant. I'm sure it was just a slight oversight on their part...

Might be because, besides Republican sycophant, Malkin, most sane folks believe it was incredibly wrong. We have republican presidential candidates* running today on the republican side, not only think its the right thing to do, its that we just are not doing it enough.

* Aside from McCain who is the only sane one on the subject.

maotig: * Aside from McCain who is the only sane one on the subject.

Well, to be fair, I think Ron Paul fits the mold as well. I think 9iu11ani does it to cover the fearful section of the Republican party and someone like Tancredo was advocating it out of the racist section. Whatever the reasoning, it's nasty business that we should aim to stay away from.

Shouldn't we not model our anti-terrorism plan on Jack Bauer because he's, you know, bad at stopping terrorism? I mean, I haven't watched the show since the second season but didn't CTU fail to stop an atomic bomb going off in an American city? And didn't the former president get attacked then assassinated? And didn't poison gas get released inside a mall? I imagine there was more as well.

It seems to me that Jack Bauer is actually pretty crappy at stopping terrorism.

Random Reality Check:

The sad fact is that the TV show 24 Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Great Job! would not be popular if it did not resonate with a certain segment of our society.



/feels no need to think through such a cunning contribution to the discussion

Shaggy_C: sigdiamond2000: Damn hotlinking DemonCraps.

Working for me; perhaps it's a problem with IE or something. Meh, point still stands. FYI It's a picture of one of FDR's Japanese Internment Camps. If you couldn't figure it out ;)

Of course it works for you! The pictures always look normal for whoever posts them. It is everyone else who doesn't already have the real picture in their cache through actually visting the site it is from who doesn't see it.

Are you new at this whole internet thing or have you just always assumed that everyone else who posted these kind of 'hotlinking denied' pictures was intentionally posting images that called them hotlinking thieves, dumbassses or worse?

Loki-L: Are you new at this whole internet thing or have you just always assumed that everyone else who posted these kind of 'hotlinking denied' pictures was intentionally posting images that called them hotlinking thieves, dumbassses or worse?

I always thought 'Dumbass' but now I see it is I who is the dumbass. So much fail...

SherKhan: Random Reality Check:

The sad fact is that the TV show 24 Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Great Job! would not be popular if it did not resonate with a certain segment of our society.

The things one can learn on Fark.
So, this is where our government
is getting their intelligence from.

attackingpencil: Shouldn't we not model our anti-terrorism plan on Jack Bauer because he's, you know, bad at stopping terrorism?

On the other hand, Mayberry's been pretty free of crime under Barney Fife's watch.

Random Reality Check:

this is where our government is getting their intelligence from.

I can really only speak for me but it is a great source. Maybe not for intelligence but for stupidity (the delicious yummy trans-fat kind) and, surprisingly, the full spectrum of B vitamins.

Shaggy_C: Funny, the author calls out all of the Republican abridgments of civil rights, but ignores the most blatant.

Hot-linking images?

I'm just curious to know something from all the folks who like to use the "what if a person in custody is believed to know where a bomb is planted" fantasy as an excuse to sanction torture...

If one of your relatives or you are somehow believed by our infallible government to be in possession of information about a bomb planted somewhere, would still still be OK with having that relative tortured for that supposed information? Even if it turns out they had the wrong person?

Are you willing to make the sacrifice to have someone you care about tortured so you can feel more secure?

Or is it only OK when it's some foreigner or other citizen unrelated to you?
Again just curious, because this attitude seems to fly in the face of everything this country was founded on...

Sgt. Pepper:

On the other hand, Mayberry's been pretty free of crime under Barney Fife's watch.

Don't kid yourself, Mayberry had a horrible alcohol abuse problem and at least
one alcohol abuser that considered the jail to be his second home and Aunt
Bea (pronounced "ain't") as his personal chef - social parasite that Otis was.

The Perp.



The "Do Gooder" enabler.

Shaggy_C: hej: Call me a tin foil hat conspiracy nut if you want to, but considering A) it's Fox, B) the over all timing of the show, and C) the general theme of "middle eastern people are evil", I think it's more likely that the show is promoting policy rather than driving it.

But he's done the exact same thing in previous seasons with Chinese enemies, white-guy enemies (Russians, I believe), and even people within the United States. I mean, is this that liberal Political Correctness that made the makers of 'The Sum of All Fears' change the terrorists from Muslims to Russians? It's like if it seems too real, we can't use it as entertainment. That's just silly. The only reason anyone uses it for comparison purposes is that it's 1) Current and popular and 2) Of similar subject matter. It's not like the congresscritters are taking their entire cues from the show; it's just there for illustrative purposes during arguments, natch.

Somebody's Jack Bauer mancrush is going into hyperdrive.

BritneysSpeculum:

Somebody's Jack Bauer mancrush is going into hyperdrive.


I prefer "Bromance".

keylock71: I prefer "Bromance".

As do I from this point forward.

hej: C) the general theme of "middle eastern people are evil",

Never seen the show, I see. Don't let that stop you though.

FUN FACT: While Jack Bauer has been with CTU, two nuclear bombs have gone off on American soil, one of which killed a President and the other of which went off in Los Angeles.

QUESTION: What does that say about the effectiveness of Jack Bauer's methods?

Gosling: FUN FACT: While Jack Bauer has been with CTU, two nuclear bombs have gone off on American soil, one of which killed a President and the other of which went off in Los Angeles.

QUESTION: What does that say about the effectiveness of Jack Bauer's methods?

Bauer is there to kick ass schematically, which he does. Well.

If you disagree with him, he's going to cut your farking head off and stick it in a bowling ball bag.

The Greatest American Frampton: Your FAIL is my HAHA.

Oh Frampy, your enlighted commentary always brings a smile to my face :)

BritneysSpeculum: Somebody's Jack Bauer mancrush is going into hyperdrive.

Someone ignored the argument completely instead trying to divert it by insulting the person who wrote the post.

What do I have for you?

hej: Call me a tin foil hat conspiracy nut if you want to, but considering A) it's Fox, B) the over all timing of the show, and C) the general theme of "middle eastern people are evil", I think it's more likely that the show is promoting policy rather than driving it.

I've actually had similar thoughts about shows like 24. I remember around the time of the run up to the Iraq War and for a little while following the invasion there were several of those military FPS coming out, and more than one had Iraq and North Korea as the antagonists. It could be companies cashing in on timing, but I still wonder about these things nonetheless.

Shaggy_C: Someone ignored the argument completely instead trying to divert it by insulting the person who wrote the post.

Dude, are you really trying to posture your "theory" on the applicability of Jack Bauer's tactics to the GWOT as some sort of thesis on geopolitics? Look, you are just a fanboy trying to justify some uncomfortable thoughts you have about your favorite hunky secret agent. Deal with it.

BritneysSpeculum: Deal with it.

I've seen all of 2 episodes of 24 in my life. Your point...is meaningless.

Shaggy_C:
The idiot author is saying that we literally have people being dragged from their homes from across the country. Who exactly is blurring the line between fact and fiction here?

If you take it completely out of context it does. What he actually said was.

And me, I also wonder this: Are we doomed to keep learning the same lesson every generation? Or will we finally decide someday to stand for what we stand for even - especially - when we are scared? That kind of courage might not stop terrorists, but it could cripple "terrorism."

Because violence that intends to instill fear is not the only threat we face. We are also threatened by the fear itself. Fear is the enemy of reason. Fear can leave you fundamentally changed.

It can't happen here, I said.

But of course, it already has.

/insert strawman image here.

Shaggy_C: BritneysSpeculum: Deal with it.

I've seen all of 2 episodes of 24 in my life. Your point...is meaningless.

And yet you were able to include the nationality of all of the antagonists that Jack Bauer has confronted in the show? Your point is....bullshiat.

Fart_Machine: If you take it completely out of context it does. What he actually said was.

The line is "It can't happen here, I said." I take this as a direct reference to the part of the article where the author actually says 'It can't happen here". Either it's sloppy writing or deliberately misleading; I don't see why you're so intent on defending it.

BritneysSpeculum: Your point is....bullshiat.

Nah, I'm just parroting the right-wing noise machine talking points I've heard over the last couple years. You didn't get the weekly update from the White House? For shame, for shame...

BritneysSpeculum Shaggy_C: BritneysSpeculum: Deal with it.

I've seen all of 2 episodes of 24 in my life. Your point...is meaningless.

And yet you were able to include the nationality of all of the antagonists that Jack Bauer has confronted in the show? Your point is....bullshiat.

Behold the very definition of...