I have a cousin in a similar position. He has worked for a contractor for 8-10 years and tried to hire on directly with DFAS. After the background check they told him to piss off. Seems silly he can't just register now. For pete's sake, his only offense was being an 18year old irresponsible dumbass. We were all that in one way or another.

You know what else happened in 1984....

Guess he should have obeyed the law....

It doesn't matter when he did it. There's a Federal ban on hiring employees who haven't registered, so once this fact came out the IRS had no real choice. It doesn't sound like they wanted to fire him, although it doesn't sound like the person who hired him in the first place was doing his job particularly well.

Even so, his lawsuit raises an interesting point about selective service relegating women to second-class citizenship by not considering them eligible.

I think the only way to fix this situation is to require all women born after December 31st, 1959 to retroactively register for selective service as well. As for the excuse that his life was hectic in the 30 days around his birthday and he was homeless, you can file late up until your 26th birthday so he really had no excuse for violating the law.

The only problem I have is that it is an absolute cut-off date and you never have any recourse after that. I'd suggest if someone knowingly comes forward and volunteers to register after they turn 26 then they should be allowed to do so, perhaps by agreeing to some penalty or to be involved in mandatory community service to make up for the fact that he was an irresponsible idiot. Allow him to register, but make him serve 160 hours of community service working with disabled veterans or something.

You know what else happened in 1984...
Jump?

If he was in high school, he should have known. My senior year we were told numerous times that it had to be done. A friend and I along with his girlfriend skipped school one day a couple of weeks before graduation to do it.

We got loaded on Busch tallboys and went to the post office to register. The biatch nearly got the cops called because the guy at the counter wouldn't accept the form she decided to fill out and she didn't like that. No sir, not at all.

How could you not know this? Seriously, I remember being bombarded with messages telling you to register at school and on television. If the guy went to college and applied for aid he also would have been required.

eddyatwork: How could you not know this?

In my cousin's case I don't think it was "not knowing" as much as being stoned and saying "fark it, man". Then when he straightened out in his early 20's, he had forgotten it. Now it's biting him in the ass at 33. Still, it seems like he should have some way to make up for a relatively minor bit of youthful stupidity now that he is a middle-aged husband and father of 3.

Never mind that the draft is also involuntary servitude. I wonder if those two words are mentioned anywhere in any sort of federal law...

Give the guy a break...it's not like he went AWOL from the National Guard...

I actually was not informed of this until it was too late. But at 18, I already HAD a case of PTSD. The last thing I would want is a random chance at getting a booster shot of "Jumping at loud noises non-immunity."

/nasty childhood
//many foster home horror stories are true
///supposedly therapeutic boarding schools, too

That is a very interesting legal tactic he's using to try to overturn that law. If he wins, it might have some interesting repercusions.

angrymacface: You know what else happened in 1984....



martha quinn?

Sounds like we should abolish the IRS

angrymacface: You know what else happened in 1984....




biami vice?

He'll lose. But it really isn't fair - lots of people do stupid things when they are young, and his didn't cause any physical injuries or damages.

Selective Service is an archaic remnant of the past and should be abolished. Good on him for standing up for men everywhere.

TurboCojones: Sounds like we should abolish the IRS

Ron Paul's your man! :D

Lionel Mandrake: Give the guy a break...it's not like he went AWOL from the National Guard...

Or ran off whining to the Great White North like a neighbor of mine did. I found that out when a couple of FBI agent dropped by to ask some questions about his loyalties.

I blame the biatches.

He might have an excuse for not registering if not for the fact that this commerical was released in 1984. If Jerry Curl Michael Jackson impersonator can't convince you to register, nobody can.

Errk: Guess he should have obeyed the law....

This

capecodcarl: The only problem I have is that it is an absolute cut-off date and you never have any recourse after that. I'd suggest if someone knowingly comes forward and volunteers to register after they turn 26 then they should be allowed to do so, perhaps by agreeing to some penalty or to be involved in mandatory community service to make up for the fact that he was an irresponsible idiot. Allow him to register, but make him serve 160 hours of community service working with disabled veterans or something.

And THIS.

He could have gotten a sex change and kept his job.

This might end up being a nice landmark case.

I ran into problems with this.

Never mind that my ten years military service means that I cannot be drafted without changing the draft laws. I met the military obligation.

I have no sympathy for this ass hat. Register for the selective service. There are public service announcements galore and its shoved down your throat in high school. There is no excuse.

As a proponent of the military, I never thought the "register for the draft" was a good idea, since it literally takes AN ACT OF CONGRESS to reinstate the draft. Until recently, the volunteer military hasn't had any trouble reaching its recruitment goals.
Here you have someone who dis something stupid when he was 18 (and who hasn't!), had a child to care for, was uneducated, but, on his own, he pulled himself up, got educated, started working at the bottom rung, worked his way up for almost 20 years, and now is being punished. Yes, technically he broke the law, but, sometimes, a compromise needs to be made.

this is what i hate about the legal system. he got fired for a dumbarse reason but he can't sue about that he has to find some stupid other thing like it's gender discrimination before he can take it to court

waaaaahhh, glass ceiling, waaaahhhhh

I don't remember if I did or not.

Is there an easy way to check to see if you have?

/other than applying for a Gov. job or running for president.

I forgot (being a newly minted irresponsible adult of 18) to register in the first 30 days. I got a letter from selective service (I wasn't homeless!) saying I better register now or else. I registered.

So, I guess I can never work for the government now? Missed the first 30 day window (22 years ago).


/Self Employed- I should fire myself.
//draconian laws like this always result in moronic decisions- see INS/USCIS

angrymacface: You know what else happened in 1984....

As a woman, I do not feel second class at all by not having to register. I feel lucky. I'm not a crazy femi-nazi who can't wait to join the boys and get shot at. Notice the insidious brainwashing that implies that women are hurt when men protect them. Such bull!

The guy deserves a break. I bet half my sons friends haven't registered.

Why can't the government register you automatically when you file your first taxes at 18? If it's mandatory anyway...why all the bullshiat?

I turned 17 during the Carter administration. I really really didn't want to register, but my parents talked me into it.

Thanks, Mom & Dad!

While I agree that he should have followed the law and registered, his lawyer makes a couple of very good points:

"Elgin, 42, of Stoughton, challenged his dismissal in federal court in Boston on the grounds that it discriminated against him because he is a man... Simply put, if Mr. Elgin were a woman and not a man, he would have retained his federal employment."

"The lawsuit asks that the court rule it unconstitutional to penalize men for failing to register for selective service because that contravenes the constitutional ban on punishment without trial."

LadyHawke911:

This

And THIS.

Did you not get the memo about "This"?

brerrabbit: I ran into problems with this.

Never mind that my ten years military service means that I cannot be drafted without changing the draft laws. I met the military obligation.

You still needed to be registered.

K/H D

strothgar: I don't remember if I did or not.

Is there an easy way to check to see if you have?

online registration check (new window)

almandot: this is what i hate about the legal system. he got fired for a dumbarse reason but he can't sue about that he has to find some stupid other thing like it's gender discrimination before he can take it to court

I'm not trying to be a smartass but do you expect there to be a law saying "if something happens for a 'dumbass reason' you can file suit and overturn it?" That could cause problems itself. Since the selective service law has been repeatedly upheld as being constitutional by the courts, it is hard to see how you could argue it is a "dumbass" law in a court.

I'm pretty sure I've never signed up for this, since I've never heard of this, and I'm 29 and have lived in the US all my life.

The proper response was to state immediately "I mailed my selective service card X days after my birthday."

If you state you mailed it, then the government has to prove you didn't since when you mail something it is legally assumed to have been received by the recipient. Since the government isn't going to be able to prove you didn't send the card in they have to take your word for it that you attempted to register, and they can't hold you responsible for the lost mail.

Stating you mailed something is actually always the best response when someone claims you failed to perform on a contract or other legal action (assuming mail is a conceivable way of performing). This is US government mail only though, don't try to claim you Fed-ex'ed.

So on the one hand, I feel like we all (men and women) ought to be registered to Selective Service to defend our country in time of need, and feel like people who shirk that duty ought not have the same privileges as their countrymen who are registered. If I hadn't registered, there's a lot of stuff I wouldn't be able to do, and the women my age faced no such barrier (although it could be reasonably argued that they face other barriers in life).

That said, this guy shouldn't lose his job over this. I agree with capecodcarl on this one, he should be able to do something about it and pay his debt to America. Since we haven't had a conscription since the 70's, it's not like he got out of a war or anything. Have him do 150 hours of volunteer work at a veteran's hospital and we'll call it even.

The concept of draft registration is quite outdated, when you think about it. If conscription became necessary, I think there are enough databases around that are either already run by the government or could be nationalized to find everyone.

Not to mention, as Don Rumsfeld pointed out a few years back, that today's wars really aren't that conducive to mass conscription anyway.

/Registered 2 weeks prior to 18. What the heck, I'm 4F on several counts anyway, might as well be able to get government jobs.

"Simply put, if Mr. Elgin were a woman and not a man had registered as required by law, he would have retained his federal employment," his lawsuit states.

Ron Paul Revere: The man/woman issue has been taken up by SCOTUS before and has been upheld (not rightfully, IMO), so I would consider that the weakest part of his case.

However, FTFA:

In addition to reinstating Elgin in his old job, the lawsuit asks that the court rule it unconstitutional to penalize men for failing to register for selective service because that contravenes the constitutional ban on punishment without trial.

This is a very salient argument. The punishments meted out are done without trial, and therefore without due process as guaranteed in the 5th Amendment. He is being punished despite never having been convicted of a crime. My personal position is that the Fed needs to start prosecuting these cases if it wants to punish people.

Of course, the IRS garnishes wages and attaches liens to property without ever prosecuting people (also illegal IMO), so the ruling on this case will be very interesting.

The government has the right to choose who they want to hire. What the boss says, goes.

They were just listening to congresses orders. What congress says, goes

whitman00: So, I guess I can never work for the government now? Missed the first 30 day window (22 years ago).

You had/have up until the age of 26. Then it's a "drop dead date". Up until then they can "fine you or something" if they want to. But they normally don't. Unless you're being an A$$hat or something.

K/H D

Mija: As a woman, I do not feel second class at all by not having to register. I feel lucky. I'm not a crazy femi-nazi who can't wait to join the boys and get shot at. Notice the insidious brainwashing that implies that women are hurt when men protect them. Such bull!

The guy deserves a break. I bet half my sons friends haven't registered.

Yeah, but pointing out that its an unfair burden on men or discriminatory toward men will get him no where - for instance Title IX quotas, affirmative action, contractor quotas, biased custody/support/reproduction laws.

Tossing in that it relegates women to second class status just pokes the political feminist bee hive.

An idealistic feminist would have been fighting for equal responsibility for the country decades ago, not fighting for quotas on a soccer field.

I agree with Mr. Elgin. Whatever happened to "equal opportunity?" I thought the government didn't discriminate based on race, sex, sexual preference, nationality, or religion.

I registered a few days after my 18th birthday. I didn't want to, and I especially didn't like that it was mandatory, but after reading about the possibility of massive fines and prison time I figured it's not a good idea to fark around and blow it off.

So I dropped my card in the mail in 1990 and that was the end of it. Never heard anything more from the military overlords.

So, as one of those "second class citizen" if we must have the farking draft then why not add us to the requirement and let us fill the holes that are non combatant?
/hoping my 3 years in the air national guard exempt me.
//Thinks we should have a mandatory national service for two years, like parks service, red cross, or community service type stuff.
///But only if our Government wasn't so farked up. they would find some way to turn it into something rotten, rather than teaching people to take pride in things other than themselves, and helping someone/something while they are at it.....