Win.

Where's Moses when you really need him?

don't get that miracle part about the Red Sea...

well done subby

So tell me again why the rest of the world is supposed to give a shiat about "Palestinians" when their Arab brothers (who are rolling in money) view them as dogs.

Arabs - the only group of people on Earth for whom I think derogatory stereotypes actually apply.

Ever heard of the Exodus? It means EXIT or... "GET THE FARK OUT"! [/troll]

Raskolnikov's Angst: So tell me again why the rest of the world is supposed to give a shiat about "Palestinians" when their Arab brothers (who are rolling in money) view them as dogs.

Arabs - the only group of people on Earth for whom I think derogatory stereotypes actually apply.

Wow. That was all kinds of stupid, from the first brainless and logically questionable sentence all the way down to the stunning stupidity denoument that was that ending. Bravo. Truly, that was stupidity of professional qualitiy.

shubai33

Mel Brooks FTW!

LowbrowDeluxe
At least Raskolnikov's Angst expressed an opinion, and reasoning behind it, he has some logic to it. All you did was birrate him withtou providing a counterpoint. Which one might say is the pinnacle of trolling.

That being said, I do think Raskolnikov's Angst was superficial in his statement.

You two should kiss and make up.

Hamas embers flaming with rage.

sorry only one show a night. enjoy the fish though.

Are we still caring about this?

/So 90's

You idiots, you're supposed to be arguing about the irony tag.

ZOMG! NOT IRONIC!

Raskolnikov's Angst: So tell me again why the rest of the world is supposed to give a shiat about "Palestinians" when their Arab brothers (who are rolling in money) view them as dogs.
Arabs - the only group of people on Earth for whom I think derogatory stereotypes actually apply.

Rather harsh,,, are you caucasion by any chance?

pearls before swine: You idiots, you're supposed to be arguing about the irony tag.

No, we should not be following the irony tag! We must follow the Holy Gourd of Jerusalem!

The poor Palestinians! If they would only be given another chance, why they'd-

who are we kidding? They'd still choose violence and savagery over making peace. They always do.

Might as well expect a scorpion to snuggle up to you and kiss your face...

LowbrowDeluxe:
Wow. That was all kinds of stupid, from the first brainless and logically questionable sentence all the way down to the stunning stupidity denoument that was that ending. Bravo. Truly, that was stupidity of professional qualitiy.

Nice word usage - too bad about the spelling mistakes though.

And since you provided such excellent points contrasting my views, let me expand further.

When I think of Arabs and the Arab world in general, I tend to think of the following traits:

- Misogyny
- Tribalism
- Gaudy opulence
- Social regressiveness
- Intolerance
- Overt violence
- Feudalism
- etc etc etc

Of course, one cannot attribute these traits to individuals in the culture, but when considering the general Arab culture as a whole I think these traits are fairly valid in describing much of the populace (especially when applied to the inept ruling classes of these countries). The fact is that without the wealth generated from oil, these countries would collapse to show the true backwardness that exists there behind the facades of modern buildings and infrastructure.

And please, spare me the excuses that these traits should be respected because they are part of another "culture". This type of relativism which is being applied wholesale across the global spectrum is what's crippling people from actually forming valid and educated opinions on the many heinous activities going on in the world today.

smeegle: Raskolnikov's Angst: So tell me again why the rest of the world is supposed to give a shiat about "Palestinians" when their Arab brothers (who are rolling in money) view them as dogs.
Arabs - the only group of people on Earth for whom I think derogatory stereotypes actually apply.

Rather harsh,,, are you caucasion by any chance?

Well, when I was in High School a few years back I had to take a standardized test in which I had to state my ethnicity. Since "Indian" wasn't one of the options and since I was informed that "Asian" applied only to those of Sino-Japanese descent, the adjudicator told me to fill out "Caucasian".

So there's your answer.

Raskolnikov's Angst:
Well, when I was in High School a few years back I had to take a standardized test in which I had to state my ethnicity. Since "Indian" wasn't one of the options and since I was informed that "Asian" applied only to those of Sino-Japanese descent, the adjudicator told me to fill out "Caucasian".

Wow, what shiatty ass test was that? Who managed to forget "Indian"? Oh wait, like textbooks, standardized tests are probably designed for Texas, and I expect most Indians would rather cut off a foot than settle there.

Raskolnikov's Angst, wow, i was actually impressed with that follow up. Well put, sir.

wow, wow, wow.

when Cameron was in Egypt's land...

No Such Agency: Raskolnikov's Angst:
Well, when I was in High School a few years back I had to take a standardized test in which I had to state my ethnicity. Since "Indian" wasn't one of the options and since I was informed that "Asian" applied only to those of Sino-Japanese descent, the adjudicator told me to fill out "Caucasian".

Wow, what shiatty ass test was that? Who managed to forget "Indian"? Oh wait, like textbooks, standardized tests are probably designed for Texas, and I expect most Indians would rather cut off a foot than settle there.

Something tells me that they mean Eurasian Indian, rather than Native American.

Just a thought.

Miracle!

Raskolnikov's Angst: Well, when I was in High School a few years back I had to take a standardized test in which I had to state my ethnicity. Since "Indian" wasn't one of the options and since I was informed that "Asian" applied only to those of Sino-Japanese descent, the adjudicator told me to fill out "Caucasian".

I used to fill in a bubble at random. What were they going to do, mark it wrong?

/Says here I was adopted, so that's funny too.

Best
Ironic
Tag
Ever

I wouldn't go through Israel either. They're still holding thousands of civilians in prisons, including Palestinian children. Citing arrest seems valid enough. Also, where does Israel get off demanding Egypt not let Palestinians go through their territory to Hajj?

Raskolnikov's Angst:
When I think of Arabs and the Arab world in general, I tend to think of the following traits:

- Misogyny
You say this with a straight face on FARK?

- Tribalism
And the jingoistic patriotism and cultural centricism of the civilized societies, is better how? Let's take the still widely held acceptance of British and US colonialism as an example. To this day people still stand by the same defense that Churchill expoused, that the native people's weren't making full use of their resources so it was only proper that a modern and civilized nation seize control.

- Gaudy opulence
Okay, seriously...gaudy opulence? As a racial/cultural trait? Donald Trump begs to differ.

- Social regressiveness

This one is a difficult one to debate. Taken as a whole they certainly aren't advancing particularly quickly, but there are elements of most modern arabic societies pushing for change. Even the US has reactionary elements trying to push back the clock on social issues.

- Intolerance

This from someone who started this thread with the equivilant of, "There's only two things I hate, bigots, and those damn dirty arabs." However, it is a pretty valid viewpoint. As a whole arabic culture seems pretty xenophobic. However, while I think it's certainly culturally ingrained, I think a fair portion of what outsiders see is directed action on the part of the controlling parties. The whole, "You'll never keep them down on the farm after they've seen the big city," thing.

- Overt violence

Again, as a cultural issue? Like people wandering the fish market randomly throwing down and slapping each other with haddock? The examples we see in the news are generally one of three things:
1) Mob violence, which is much the same everywhere.
2) Legally sanctioned violence, which I agree is reprehensible but part of the power structure more than the culture.
and
3) Politically sanctioned or motivated. I don't see the middle eastern nations as being particularly more prone to this than South America or the various coup-riddled African nations, personally.

It just doesn't strike me as a cultural trait for the most part. It is deeply rooted in all of their lives, but as a result of the nature of their power structures, not because they enjoy drinkin' a fo'ty then doing drive bys on people that dissed their homies.

- Feudalism

The only one that really applies to is the US's good friend the Saudi's. I suppose because of the very personal way they do business and the tendency towards nepotism that entails the rest of the countries could be considered to be operating in an economically similar manner. Still, while I disagree with most of the major middle eastern governments, I wouldn't refer to most of them as feudal.

- etc etc etc

Those etc's would be for all of the early advances in the sciences and social mechanics that stalled out after two hundred years of crusading barbarians dragged them down to join in the dark ages?

Of course, one cannot attribute these traits to individuals in the culture,

That's a bunch of double-speak that amounts to 'but some of my best friends are arab'.

but when considering the general Arab culture as a whole I think these traits are fairly valid in describing much of the populace (especially when applied to the inept ruling classes of these countries).

And that's just entirely sloppy thinking. First off, judging by the things you choose to focus on I'm guessing most of your experience comes from the same news sources that would lead one to believe that all americans are either redneck wifebeaters or blustering televangelist blowhards. Secondly, 'espeically when applied to the inept ruling classes' is empty nonsense. Go ahead, tell me, who are you refering to there? What ineptitude do you reference? What failings as leaders are you pointing out, which leaders do you feel particularly inept?

The fact is that without the wealth generated from oil, these countries would collapse to show the true backwardness that exists there behind the facades of modern buildings and infrastructure.

Again, I can think of exactly one nation that applies to. It certainly doesn't apply to the palestinians you back-handidly refered to as dogs earlier. Oh, but wait, *you* didn't say that. You just put words into the mouths of their 'Arab brothers'. I'm sure *you* would *never* say that. Why, some of your best friends are probably palestinian.

And please, spare me the excuses that these traits should be respected because they are part of another "culture".

Wah, wah, wah, the last ditch hiding place of the idiot-intelligencia. Making up arguements that they can then shoot down. First you describe a fictitious set of cultural traits, then attempt to smear anyone who defends the culture as 'cultural relativists'. Fark off, idiot. Yes, all those things need to be changed. Just like a lot of them had to be changed in America in the last 50-75 years. But there is a big difference between actual social change that respects the culture itself, and trying to force an outside perspective on an indigenous population.

This type of relativism which is being applied wholesale across the global spectrum is what's crippling people from actually forming valid and educated opinions on the many heinous activities going on in the world today.

Only in your floor-humping little black-or-white with-us-or-against-us mind.

And none of all that blowhard babble even approaches your initial statements. Remember what you wrote, Mr. Culturally Superior? "Why should we care about the palestinians if even their own arab brothers don't?" Yeah, I can see how superior you are.

Raskolnikov's Angst: When I think of Arabs and the Arab world in general, I tend to think of the following traits:

- Misogyny
- Tribalism
- Gaudy opulence
- Social regressiveness
- Intolerance
- Overt violence
- Feudalism
- etc etc etc


Arabs? Or Italians in New Jersey?

ultraholland

...let myy Cameronnn goooo.

LowbrowDeluxe: blah blah blah blah

Heh, Stay in Seattle, the world doesn't need you.

Actually Feudalism is a good way to describe modern autocracies. The dictator/president-for-life/local thug would sit on the highest seat as the feudal lord. The top guy then surrounds himself with family members and loyalists by giving them top jobs in the government. When the feudal lord dies there's usually a power struggle or ocasionally someone decides they've had enough of the top guy and try to replace him (you don't see a lot of internal coups these days (I may not be positive on this, my fields of study are nationalism and political theory with some research into the transition of post-soviet states)) usually what you see is someone close tothe top just assuming more power as the leader becomes old and infirm setting themself up to take over after the leaders death in a quick and bloodless transition (look at the ailing Castro and his brother, the guy is practically the one in charge now).
Also in several countries in the middle east and surrounding areas government authority only extends as far as the urban centers, with tribal leaders controlling the 'wilderness' or outlying areas. Just look at Pakistan, The Mussharaf has gone to talk to the tribal leaders in Pakistan to ask them to stop working with the Taliban, doesn't sound like an area with a lot of government oversite or authority.

LowbrowDeluxe

Only in your floor-humping little black-or-white with-us-or-against-us mind.

At this point in history, the them is Islamic/Middle Eastern states, and the us is the entire rest of the world. I'm doubt there's anyone besides delusional apologists that side with the DEATH TO THE INFIDELS pyschotics at this point. Unfortunately, many of the apologists have lots of money, so they get plenty of air time. If you can't win on logic, win by out-shouting everyone who disagrees with you.

LowbrowDeluxe

Secondly, 'espeically when applied to the inept ruling classes' is empty nonsense. Go ahead, tell me, who are you refering to there? What ineptitude do you reference? What failings as leaders are you pointing out, which leaders do you feel particularly inept?

Are you farking kidding? You want examples? Pick pretty much any of them!

/Yes, our current president is not exactly a Rhodes Scholar either (like the previous one) but that doesn't make it OK...

rmoody:
At this point in history, the them is Islamic/Middle Eastern states, and the us is the entire rest of the world. I'm doubt there's anyone besides delusional apologists that side with the DEATH TO THE INFIDELS pyschotics at this point. Unfortunately, many of the apologists have lots of money, so they get plenty of air time. If you can't win on logic, win by out-shouting everyone who disagrees with you.

Or, if you can't win that way, make up a false dichotomy and imply that your opponent is on the obviously losing side of it so you get an instant victory. Brilliant.

I, for one, happen to like apple pie and ice cream, I'm afraid of what any of you will say to that.

Flame on!


_{/...Is that how it works?}

... It would be ironic if Moses had "parted" the Red Sea, but he didn't.

The story of The Exodus translates to the Sea of Reeds (or The Reed Sea). If a constant, gentle wind blows for few hours, then the Reed Sea coat will recede by over a mile, leaving a muddy, but passable terrain.

rmoody: LowbrowDeluxe

Only in your floor-humping little black-or-white with-us-or-against-us mind.

At this point in history, the them is Islamic/Middle Eastern states, and the us is the entire rest of the world. I'm doubt there's anyone besides delusional apologists that side with the DEATH TO THE INFIDELS pyschotics at this point. Unfortunately, many of the apologists have lots of money, so they get plenty of air time. If you can't win on logic, win by out-shouting everyone who disagrees with you.

I agree.

One sometimes gets the idea that only Americans are at odds with Islamic terrorism in this current age - but look at India, look at the Philippines, look at any number of African states that have Islamic aggression as the main force for conflict. Hell, muslims are even killing each other over who follows their religion correctly.

And i've found that it's usually the people sitting comfortably in their Ivory Towers of the West [Seattle or any other "progressive" city comes to mind] that have inflated or misguided interpretations of world events.

I advocate liberalism and universal humanism for everyone and when I look at the Islamic world with its values at odds with the modern world, it unsettles me. But what unsettles me more is seeing people like you, LowBrow - people who espouse such values and almost act like martyrs of their faith when confronted with middle America or those with conservative values whom you disagree with. But inexplicably, these same people will defend those who make the conservatives in America look like trans gendered cabaret dancers in Rio de Janeiro. And why, just because they're not living in your backyard?

Should not your values be applied to everyone in the world and not to just those of us living in the West? Don't women have the right NOT to be treated like property? Shouldn't people wherever they are be allowed to worship freely and live a lifestyle of their own as long as it does not interfere with others? Shouldn't people be allowed not to believe in anything if they wish to do so?

*coast... sorry

Too bad there isn't a "who gives a flying fark" tag.

It's funny that Raskolnikov's Angst should mention India. All things
he mentions of islamic culture is equally applicable too Hindu culture at least islamic culture doesn't condone Baby killing.

Muslims are very proud of their civilization and feel that it is worthy of emulating. They see their cultural offering -- Islam and Shari'a law -- as being in direct competition with the West's -- democracy, freedom bordering on license, and Pop culture -- for the hearts and minds of emerging nations. They became upset that people in developing countries seemed to prefer Western values over Muslim, and very, very upset when their own children started to show a similar preference. Muslims are concerned that their way of life will be washed away in a flood of Western intellectual freedom. They're right to be concerned for as it's presently constituted, Islamic culture is not capable of dealing with Western values. Islam can either: disintegrate under the influence of Western pop culture, as seems to have happened in Japan; fight back both overtly and demographically, as they seem to be doing with some success in Europe; or, sadly least likely, reform itself to better meet the requirements of integration into a modern global society.

When I think of Americans and the Western world in general, I tend to think of the following traits:

- Misogyny
- Segregation
- Gaudy opulence
- Social regressiveness
- Intolerance
- Overt violence
- Facism
- etc etc etc

Of course, one cannot attribute these traits to individuals in the culture, but when considering the general Western culture as a whole I think these traits are fairly valid in describing much of the populace (especially when applied to the inept ruling classes of these countries). The fact is that without the wealth generated from corruption, these countries would collapse to show the true backwardness that exists there behind the facades of modern buildings and infrastructure.

And please, spare me the excuses that these traits should be respected because they are part of another "culture". This type of relativism which is being applied wholesale across the global spectrum is what's crippling people from actually forming valid and educated opinions on the many heinous activities going on in the world today.

The Arab world is very...reactionary. I wouldn't say they were xenophobic but they do have a tendency to overact (such as the case of the Danish cartoons and the recent instance were a teacher allowed her class to name a teddy bear Muhamed)What really annoys me is that they demand we respect their values and beliefs yet fail to reciprocate. And please don't get me started on Shari'ah law or the pointless Sunni/Shiite divide.

nazlfrag- etc etc etc Original thinking...try some.

Raskolnikov's Angst...you are kicking arse. Proceed!

Where the heck is Moses Musa now that they need him?