Oh please. So the emo/goth teeny trend in Kurdistan is for depressed girls to set themselves on fire, and because of this Chimpy W. McBushhitler's war for oil is finally revealed to be a failure? Because clearly less teen suicide self-immolation happened under Sadaam, as shown by the latest Gallup surveys done in Iraq when compared to the extremely accurate data taken under the Hussein regime on the subject.

If there's a story about how Iraqi kids are smoking fecal matter to get high, is that also suppose to change my mind about the war?

They are free to attempt as much suicide as they want. That's freedom, BABY!

It was so very bad when Evil Meanie Saddam Hussein bombed the Kurds, but when we provide intel for Turkey to do it, that's just goddamn patriotic!

/Collateral damage isn't, when it happens to you.

Immolation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Ummmm ... don't we all own Drew's book? The headline is not, in the slightest way, supported by the article (yet somehow, an admin let it through). There are no statistics whatsoever in the article, and the only victims to whom they spoke were crazy. Not Fark poster crazy, but real, diagnosed crazy. What the hell is this bullshiat? I'm not one to think that the media are biased, but what is the point of this obvious distortion?

filth: ). There are no statistics whatsoever in the article, and the only victims to whom they spoke were crazy. Not Fark poster crazy, but real, diagnosed crazy. What the hell is this bullshiat? I'm not one to think that the media are biased, but what is the point of this obvious distortion?

Unless you want to fly into Jordan, then take a bus into the Northern Region of Iraq, which is now an open area of operation for Turkish forces to refute this...

"Since 2003, an average of one female sets herself on fire each day in Iraqi Kurdistan, according to Khasro Omar, head nurse of the Emergency Management Centre in Erbil. The center is the premier hospital for burn patients in the area."

You might want to take the words of the head nurse who is on sight and dealing with this situation. Or, you could just pontificate and vomit out words trying to violently spin things to make your world seem picture perfect.

Nah, she's just a loon, right?

at least when it was under Saddam it wasn't costing us $15 billion a month.

As a card-carrying feminist, and Californian, I have to say, "That totally sucks."

As a person with a brain, I would direct you to this article from the National Geographic

Link (new window)

karendotcom: As a person with a brain, I would direct you to this article from the National Geographic

Link (new window)
====================

I read your link.
It's not the first I've heard of any of that, but I will never get over how primative and barbaric those people are.

I will also never get over the fact that the USA is sacrificing it's own people's lives and well being to preserve such ancient tribal crap.

Perhaps next, we can invade a few african countries to preserve their right to rape infants (it cures AIDS) as well.

THOSE ASSHOLES DON'T WANT DEMOCRACY OR EQUALITY.

It's a religion thing.

Tarkus: at least when it was under Saddam it wasn't costing us $15 billion a month.

Secular repression when we were paying Saddam was somewhat cheaper and kept more people alive - if only he'd behaved and did what we wanted him to do. Now, we've kinda goofed while cleaning up our own mess, and as a result we're stuck in the Middle East for years on end. Penny-wise, pound-foolish, so to speak.

Maybe we should stop paying dictators? Or paying people to overthrow them? I know, it's a bit simplistic, but I'll bet it's not only cheaper, but easier, too.

Troll count: +2

TommyymmoT:
I will also never get over the fact that the USA is sacrificing it's own people's lives and well being to preserve such ancient tribal crap.

That is because, TommyTTommy, it is not about tribal crap, it is about big oil and american contolled military bases in the middle east.

Perhaps you were sleeping during the memo...

karendotcom: TommyymmoT:
I will also never get over the fact that the USA is sacrificing it's own people's lives and well being to preserve such ancient tribal crap.

That is because, TommyTTommy, it is not about tribal crap, it is about big oil and american contolled military bases in the middle east.

Perhaps you were sleeping during the memo...
============================
Nope, wide awake. I just wish the politicos would stop lieing about it, by saying it's anything else.

I don't think either of us will see an end to their abhorant behaviour towards women in our lifetime.

At least partially, because most of their women are onboard with it.

TheAbstractor

Too heavy-handed. You've been around long enough to know better. Fail.

TomyTTomy,

Maybe you are right. Perhaps there isn't that big of a difference between lying in politics and setting your wife on fire.

You know they both deserved it.

submitter: Kurdish women in Northern Iraq celebrating their freedom and liberation from Saddam by attempting suicide at higher rates due to poverty and male domination, often by self-immolation

It think the least we could do, in America, to show solidarity with our suddenly fashionable female Muslim friends, would be to ratify the current "Equal Right Amendment" as re-introduced by Senator Kennedy for the 110th Congress.

Really, since we're all so beside ourselves, on both sides, over how women are being treated in other countries it should be a no-brainer to ratify something as simple as this:

Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex

for our own women.

dameron

You Farkers may be idiots, but at least you are my idiots.

And I mean that in a nice way.

karendotcom: And I mean that in a nice way.

I think it's safe to say I'm on your side with this.

Love your doggie by the way.

And once again Bush has made Saddam into the lesser evil.

/ashamed at the evil that has been wrought in my name as an American

filth: There are no statistics whatsoever in the article, and the only victims to whom they spoke were crazy. Not Fark poster crazy, but real, diagnosed crazy. What the hell is this bullshiat? I'm not one to think that the media are biased, but what is the point of this obvious distortion?

NewportBarGuy: "Since 2003, an average of one female sets herself on fire each day in Iraqi Kurdistan, according to Khasro Omar, head nurse of the Emergency Management Centre in Erbil. The center is the premier hospital for burn patients in the area."

You might want to take the words of the head nurse who is on sight and dealing with this situation. Or, you could just pontificate and vomit out words trying to violently spin things to make your world seem picture perfect.

Yes, there is that "Since 2003" point of information, but no context, nothing about what it was like before.

I don't think this distortion is willful. It's the kind of shoddy-ass news you get when a genius editor tells his reporter to cram a book's worth of news into 650 words because the suits say anything longer doesn't test well with the 25-54s. And so you get hackwork like

As new social and economic pressures collide with old traditions in the newly prosperous region of northern Iraq, Kurdish women still exert little control over their lives, health experts say.

C'mon. It was so hard to do a little legwork and put names to who these "health experts" are?

I don't understand what the point of the Dallas News sending a reporter into Iraq is going to be if they're going to make her cover it like a city council meeting and churn out warmed-over AP copy.

We really had to dig for this one didn't we considering Saddam had no influence on the Kurds since 1992.
We know it's all W's fault.
Some of this shait makes me sick.
We have a much larger suicide rate right here among our teens.

I'm sure we can figure out a way to blame it on Bush too.

Maybe instead of looking for someone to blame it on we need leadership and a spiritual revolution to put something besides material things in peoples lives.

Nah, I like my Vette and my huge house.
You can spot my Carbon Footprint from Space!

"A self-destructive man feels completely alienated, utterly alone. He's an outsider to the human community. He thinks to himself, "I must be insane." What he fails to realize is that society has, just as he does, a vested interest in considerable losses and catastrophes. These wars, famines, floods and quakes meet well-defined needs. Man wants chaos. In fact, he's gotta have it. Depression, strife, riots, murder, all this dread. We're irresistibly drawn to that almost orgiastic state created out of death and destruction. It's in all of us. We revel in it. Sure, the media tries to put a sad face on these things, painting them up as great human tragedies. But we all know the function of the media has never been to eliminate the evils of the world, no. Their job is to persuade us to accept those evils and get used to living with them. The powers that be want us to be passive observers. Hey, you got a match? And they haven't given us any other options outside the occasional, purely symbolic, participatory act of voting. You want the puppet on the right or the puppet on the left? I feel that the time has come to project my own inadequacies and dissatisfactions into the sociopolitical and scientific schemes, let my own lack of a voice be heard."

This just in: Kurdish women are the hottest in the world.

larry00:,

You know, in all honesty, most of the time I think of you as a raving loon in the same light as Skookum (I'm sure the feeling is mutual) but I need you to know, I honestly believe you have hit the nail right on the head with half of your post. Ah well, half is a start, at least.


We really had to dig for this one didn't we considering Saddam had no influence on the Kurds since 1992.
We know it's all W's fault.
Some of this shait makes me sick.

I'm not sure fault is where we should be looking, we need to refocus on how to fix this problem. It is certainly one that ties in religion and culture (even though those two subjects are so intertwined in that region of the world, they scarcely need to be differentiated) but what could be a real, solution, one that could be quickly implemented?

I see the President as coming out and making a speech that the US believes this situation is atrocious and that we will open up our immigration to any woman (or girl) who wishes to come here. Additionally, we will make transportation available, at zero cost, and work to find housing, training and support for these people (preferably through private charities) until they can stand on their own.

This would send a message to the world, while sending one to the Kurdish men - that being, either you straighten you asses out or open them up because the choices are going to be sleeping with another guy or a goat - your choice.


We have a much larger suicide rate right here among our teens.

I don't know if this is true even though I am willing to accept we do have a problem. However, this is a problem we should be working on as well, not in place of. We just might have the money to do both, if we weren't spending it elsewhere.


I'm sure we can figure out a way to blame it on Bush too.

Yes, that old "The buck stops here." is SO outdated. It took the party of personal responsibility to point that out.


Maybe instead of looking for someone to blame it on we need leadership and a spiritual revolution to put something besides material things in peoples lives.

I'm not sure what you mean by spiritual but I completely agree with you in theory. Our value system is seriously skewed and we are all paying for it, not in a financial sense alone, either.


Nah, I like my Vette and my huge house.
You can spot my Carbon Footprint from Space!

Point taken.
So, how do we fix this?
Madison Avenue isn't going to change and our economy is one strictly based on gluttony.

NewportBarGuy:

Unless you want to fly into Jordan, then take a bus into the Northern Region of Iraq, which is now an open area of operation for Turkish forces to refute this...

"Since 2003, an average of one female sets herself on fire each day in Iraqi Kurdistan, according to Khasro Omar, head nurse of the Emergency Management Centre in Erbil. The center is the premier hospital for burn patients in the area."

You might want to take the words of the head nurse who is on sight and dealing with this situation. Or, you could just pontificate and vomit out words trying to violently spin things to make your world seem picture perfect.

Nah, she's just a loon, right?

What exactly did the head nurse say that has anything to do with the headline?

I get the feeling we care about this problem a whole lot more than the average Iraqi does.

mrexcess:

I get the feeling we care about this problem a whole lot whey more than the average Iraqi does.

Because no one had yet.

filth: There are no statistics whatsoever in the article, and the only victims to whom they spoke were crazy. Not Fark poster crazy, but real, diagnosed crazy. What the hell is this bullshiat? I'm not one to think that the media are biased, but what is the point of this obvious distortion?

I hardly think living a life so goddamn shiatty and depressing you'd rather set yourself on fire and die than face another day is crazy. You'd have to be either crazy or rather stupid to accept a life like they have without any complaint.

Hang On Voltaire: What exactly did the head nurse say that has anything to do with the headline?

"Since 2003, an average of one female sets herself on fire each day in Iraqi Kurdistan, according to Khasro Omar, head nurse of the Emergency Management Centre in Erbil. The center is the premier hospital for burn patients in the area."

FTA

vs.

"Kurdish women in Northern Iraq celebrating their freedom and liberation from Saddam by attempting suicide at higher rates due to poverty and male domination, often by self-immolation"


Isn't it ironic that women didn't have to wear burquas under Saddam's Iraq, yet Shiites slay them if they don't?

Also, higher education is denied to them. Thanks neocons!

Hey, where's that video where they go to some high school and convince the girls there to support some bill/initiative that would remove their right to vote?

/America has its share of people who feel enslaved by civil liberties too

Were things different under Saddam? I thought that Kurds were semi-independent since the uprising in 1991. The Iraqi government withdrew and blockaded Kurdistan and the coalition imposed a no-fly zone over the area. I wasn't aware that Saddam had re-asserted control of the area.

Mission accomplished?

Hearts and minds won over now?

/like we give a shiat

Meh, all I see is fewer Muslim babies in the future.

The Name: Meh, all I see is fewer Muslim babies in the future babes right now.

Fixed. :P

Freedom is a tough gig, sometimes its just easier to let others do your thinking for you, it's a lot less stressful

NewportBarGuy: It was so very bad when Evil Meanie Saddam Hussein bombed the Kurds, but when we provide intel for Turkey to do it, that's just goddamn patriotic!

Saddam gassed them. Turkey is bombing rebel camps that are training terrorists to be sent to fight in Turkey. Big difference.

rawa.org

for those of a strong constitution. Self-immolation in afghanistan.

filth: Ummmm ... don't we all own Drew's book?

I do, but haven't read it yet. I spend too much time here lol.

Self-immolation and honor killings are, and always have been, endemic to that entire region.

It is a tribal culture problem, not religious in any way shape or form. It predates Islam (650 AD remember) by thousands of years. Wherever tribal cultures and lifestyles dominate you find this sort of savagery, from female circumcision to female infanticide. There is absolutely nothing we can do to affect this short term, shy of imposing absolute control over these people.

Only time and exposure to "civilization" will bring these tribal primatives out of this kind of behavior (and into our civilized savageries unfortunately).

Bunch of farking savages in that region.

JamUhn: Saddam gassed them. Turkey is bombing rebel camps that are training terrorists to be sent to fight in Turkey. Big difference.

Is it? Do we know who Turkey is attacking, or just taking their word for it?

Hmm. There have been articles recently about women setting themselves on fire in parts of Iran and Afghanistan. Guess it's spreading.

If they're self-immolating as a gesture for help, they might want to try something a little less damaging. Must be some sleep-inducing herbs around somewhere they could OD on.

mrexcess: I get the feeling we care about this problem a whole lot more than the average Iraqi does.

I am sure that the average Iraqi woman cares a hell of a lot more about this than we do. Get a brain, mister excess.

karendotcom: mrexcess: I get the feeling we care about this problem a whole lot more than the average Iraqi does.

I am sure that the average Iraqi woman cares a hell of a lot more about this than we do. Get a brain, mister excess.

Since they are the ones self-immolating, and many of them in the more remote regions would agree it is a proper response, I'm not sure you are correct.

If everything you were ever taught said this was a normal, and in fact, honorable decision, you might lack the external context to realize just how insane it is.

Everyone is not like us. Western philosophical concepts about the worth of the individual (women in particular) are not inherent to mankind.

Some people's cultures are even more farked up than ours. We will not be able to effect positive change until we abandon our cultural self-loathing and relativistic self-deception and admit this.

Our troops are doing a heckuva job over there.

The Name: Meh, all I see is fewer Muslim babies in the future.

Void of all humanity, he edges closer to the edge of the cliff of vile and putrid self loathing.
*Nudge

Random Reality Check

Although your intentions are good and the idea is noble I don't think relocating these women is going to have too much of an effect. I live amongst many Indians here on the west coast of Canada (Hindu/Sikh/Muslim) that span many generations in Canada.

Unfortunately some in the community and religion still follow the old customs and immigrants are most likely to stick within their nationality when they first arrive.

Just this year, I can recall one suicide (first generation) and one murder (second generation) because the women did not adhere to the tenants. Both were educated, professionals.

Alphax: JamUhn: Saddam gassed them. Turkey is bombing rebel camps that are training terrorists to be sent to fight in Turkey. Big difference.

Is it? Do we know who Turkey is attacking, or just taking their word for it?

Who is 'we'? If you mean the United States, then yes, they should know seeing as they are the ones feeding them intelligence for where to bomb.