Yah, badwidth is just free MrMcRipoffmyneighborswifimitter.

Perhaps the next generation of musicians will learn to read the contracts before they sign them.

OregonVet: Yah, badwidth is just free MrMcRipoffmyneighborswifimitter.

Bandwidth isn't free, but it's certainly cheap. A lot cheaper than say, packing a CD up in a theft resistant plastic container with multicolor graphics printed all over the place.

So, the question is, this "packaging cost" is it significantly lower for digital sales. To account for the low cost of bandwidth compared to packaging?

lordargent: Bandwidth isn't free, but it's certainly cheap.

Probably. I didn't RTFA but the cost of packaging isn't real expensive. Downloading a CD is more expensive than this thread for sure. We should ask Drew. I mean, thousands of people downloading from the same place day and night.... And more importantly is this just a misnomer? If it's like ticketmaster^tm, sure, excessive.

lordargent: Bandwidth isn't free, but it's certainly cheap.

How are they using bandwidth as packaging unless they are downloading from EMI? Apple, et al. are paying for the rights to distribute... the bandwidth charges come out of their mark-up.

or am i just too tired (or stupid) to get it?

OregonVet: Probably. I didn't RTFA but the cost of packaging isn't real expensive. Downloading a CD is more expensive than this thread for sure. We should ask Drew. I mean, thousands of people downloading from the same place day and

A full CD, ripped to uncompressed wave files, is about 700 MB max. Encode that to MP3 files and you can get it down to about 70MB while maintaining a good quality.

There are hosts on the web offering 50 gigs (that's ~50,000 MB) of bandwidth per month for $20. That's 714 downloads of the compressed MP3 files for the CD for $20. Or, 2 cents per full download of the CD.

Even if you double that to deal with the space needed to host the files (hard drives are even cheaper). You're talking 4 cents per full CD.

Now, how much are they charging? And are they charging their "packing charge" if someone downloads the files from someone else that's licensed to provide the music? Like I-tunes?

Because then they're collecting a packing cost when their distribution costs are zero.

Found via a quick google search.

Finally, there's what's called a packaging deduction; artwork, insert booklets, jewel boxes, and shrink wrap all cost money, and the labels don't want to pay artist royalties on those expenses, so they don't. Typically, labels deduct a whopping 25 percent off the retail price of a CD for the costs of packaging it.

lordargent: You're talking 4 cents per full CD.

Dude, go to your network connection and see how many packets you've sent and received. Someone has to pay the people to package and ship those packets. Then you have to pay the people that make sure the tubes don't clog. That money isn't going to come from nowhere. You have to think about all the hidden costs of sending stuff online.

Kyosuke: Perhaps the next generation of musicians will learn to read the contracts before they sign them.

Record companies offer up nice vague contracts and will throw anything in the "against royalties" column. Even though holding something against royalties is nothing more than a way to rip people off.

I want to know if there's any difference in the frequency of breakage between WMA, MP3, and M4A files.

You know what really pisses me off? Farking Ticketmaster charging you money to print out the tickets yourself. If I could smite people, they would be high on the list, I hate the concert ticket scams...

WhyteRaven74: Kyosuke: Perhaps the next generation of musicians will learn to read the contracts before they sign them.

Record companies offer up nice vague contracts and will throw anything in the "against royalties" column. Even though holding something against royalties is nothing more than a way to rip people off.

I think Radiohead would have signed their contract a decade before selling music online was even heard of.

danduran: I think Radiohead would have signed their contract a decade before selling music online was even heard of.

Actually they released their last album without a record deal. That's why they got to release it however they wanted. Also no one holding anything over their heads or taking anything extra out of sales revenues.

Here is how artists are roped into these bad contracts:

"Every major label involved in the hunt for new bands now has on staff a high-profile point man, an "A&R" rep who can present a comfortable face to any prospective band. The initials stand for "Artist and Repertoire," because historically, the A&R staff would select artists to record music that they had also selected, out of an available pool of each. This is still the case, though not openly.

These guys are universally young [about the same age as the bands being wooed], and nowadays they always have some obvious underground rock credibility flag they can wave. Lyle Preslar, former guitarist for Minor Threat, is one of them. Terry Tolkin, former NY independent booking agent and assistant manager at Touch and Go is one of them. Al Smith, former soundman at CBGB is one of them. Mike Gitter, former editor of XXX fanzine and contributor to Rip, Kerrang and other lowbrow rags is one of them. Many of the annoying turds who used to staff college radio stations are in their ranks as well.

There are several reasons A&R scouts are always young. The explanation usually copped-to is that the scout will be "hip" to the current musical "scene." A more important reason is that the bands will intuitively trust someone they think is a peer, and who speaks fondly of the same formative rock and roll experiences.

The A&R person is the first person to make contact with the band, and as such is the first person to promise them the moon. Who better to promise them the moon than an idealistic young turk who expects to be calling the shots in a few years, and who has had no previous experience with a big record company. Hell, he's as naive as the band he's duping. When he tells them no one will interfere in their creative process, he probably even believes it.

When he sits down with the band for the first time, over a plate of angel hair pasta, he can tell them with all sincerity that when they sign with company X, they're really signing with him and he's on their side. Remember that great, gig I saw you at in '85? Didn't we have a blast.

By now all rock bands are wise enough to be suspicious of music industry scum. There is a pervasive caricature in popular culture of a portly, middle aged ex-hipster talking a mile-a-minute, using outdated jargon and calling everybody "baby." After meeting "their" A&R guy, the band will say to themselves and everyone else, "He's not like a record company guy at all! He's like one of us." And they will be right. That's one of the reasons he was hired.

These A&R guys are not allowed to write contracts. What they do is present the band with a letter of intent, or "deal memo," which loosely states some terms, and affirms that the band will sign with the label once a contract has been agreed on.

The spookiest thing about this harmless sounding little "memo," is that it is, for all legal purposes, a binding document. That is, once the band sign it, they are under obligation to conclude a deal with the label. If the label presents them with a contract that the band don't want to sign, all the label has to do is wait. There are a hundred other bands willing to sign the exact same contract, so the label is in a position of strength.

These letters never have any term of expiration, so the band remain bound by the deal memo until a contract is signed, no matter how long that takes. The band cannot sign to another label or even put out its own material unless they are released from their agreement, which never happens. Make no mistake about it: once a band has signed a letter of intent, they will either eventually sign a contract that suits the label or they will be destroyed.

One of my favorite bands was held hostage for the better part of two years by a slick young "He's not like a label guy at all,' A&R rep, on the basis of such a deal memo. He had failed to come through on any of his promises (something he did with similar effect to another well-known band), and so the band wanted out. Another label expressed interest, but when the A&R man was asked to release the band, he said he would need money or points, or possibly both, before he would consider it.

The new label was afraid the price would be too dear, and they said no thanks. On the cusp of making their signature album, an excellent band, humiliated, broke up from the stress and the many months of inactivity."

http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/problemwithmusic.html

Paul McCartney who recently left EMI after 40 years for Starbucks:
"Everybody at EMI had become part of the furniture. I'd be a couch; Coldplay are an armchair. And Robbie Williams, I dread to think what he was. But the most important thing was, I'd felt [the people at EMI] had become really very boring, you know?"

Radiohead who recently left EMI:
"We'll miss the people we work with, all the people at [EMI subsidiary] Parlophone. The rest of the stuff about maybe not understanding the music industry? Terra Firma [New EMI owners] don't fully understand."

Robbie Williams' manager regarding EMI:
Robbie Williams's manager has raised the prospect that the star could quit EMI after he completes his final studio album for the struggling record company.
The singer, who is also contracted to release a best-of compilation, has been with the company for a decade and remains one of its biggest selling acts.

But his manager Tim Clark, co-founder of IE Music, told The Daily Telegraph: 'I would be very wary about signing him to any major at the moment."

I hope this carries over to Sony BMG. And perhaps even Warner and Universal. I'm tired of all the majors.

Postal Penguin: Dude, go to your network connection and see how many packets you've sent and received. Someone has to pay the people to package and ship those packets. Then you have to pay the people that make sure the tubes don't clog. That money isn't going to come from nowhere. You have to think about all the hidden costs of sending stuff online.

LOLZ!!!!1!!!!!

WhyteRaven74: danduran: I think Radiohead would have signed their contract a decade before selling music online was even heard of.

Actually they released their last album without a record deal. That's why they got to release it however they wanted. Also no one holding anything over their heads or taking anything extra out of sales revenues.

That's my point. Now they're free of the contract they probably signed in 1992, they can do what they want.

/subby

Postal Penguin: Dude, go to your network connection and see how many packets you've sent and received.

2,580,057 / 3,719,606

:P

OregonVet: Yah, badwidth is just free MrMcRipoffmyneighborswifimitter.


Please go to any of EMI's (new window) sites and let me know where I can download music directly from them.

That said, if packaging includes artwork, there likely needs to be some money spent on it. 25% is likely a bit high though.

"EMI"

There's unlimited supply
And there is no reason why
I tell you it was all a frame
They only did it 'cos of fame
Who?

E.M.I. E.M.I. E.M.I.

Too many people had the suss
Too many people support us
Un unlimited amount
Too many outlets in and out
Who?

E.M.I E.M.I E.M.I

And sir and friends are crucified
A day they wished that we had died
We are an addition
We are ruled by none
Never ever never

And you thought that we were faking
That we were all just money making
You do not believe we're for real
Or you would lose your cheap appeal?

Don't judge a book just by the cover
Unless you cover just another
And blind acceptance is a sign
Of stupid fools who stand in line
Like

E.M.I E.M.I E.M.I

Unlimted edition
With an unlimited supply
That was the only reason
We all had to say goodbye

Unlimited supply (E.M.I)
There is no reason why (E.M.I)
I tell you it was all a frame (E.M.I)
They only did it 'cos of fame (E.M.I)
I do not need the pressure (E.M.I)
I can't stand those useless fools (E.M.I)
Unlimited supply (E.M.I)
Hello E.M.I
Goodbye A & M

Record labels are a racket. They are no different than the mafia.

In addition to bandwidth, "packaging" could also include the systems required to run a file distribution system, probably costing millions of dollars, to handle the distribution needs of large record labels. Upkeep of such a system could be very costly as well.

Of course, they're probably screwing the bands as much as the contract will legally allow. It doesn't look like much has changed since the first "major" record label formed.

Also from Albini's The Problem With Music article...

^{Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with runny, decaying shiat. I imagine these people, some of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed. Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the shiat stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each other under the shiat. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says "Actually, I think you need a little more development. Swim again, please. Backstroke". And he does of course.}

From the article:

"However the band's management have responded saying that the label did not take their negotiations seriously and it could loose other high profile artists in future."

That sounds unpleasant.

Postal Penguin: Dude, go to your network connection and see how many packets you've sent and received. Someone has to pay the people to package and ship those packets.

Comedy gold.

Group using a loop
Of another pop group
Group shooting a hoop
And starving it up in to the soup
Cos Im of regular features
And adidas trainers
Completing the cycle
Until the teenage maniacs
Can bring it on back

B l u r e m i
B l u r e m i
B l u r e m i
B l u r e m i

Group using a loop
Of another pop group
Completing the cycle
Until the teenage maniacs
Theyll bring it all back

B l u r e m i
B l u r e m i
B l u r e m i
B l u r e m i

B l u r e m i
B l u r e m i
B l u r e m i
B l u r e m i...