Al Qaeda and the Taliban...someone should really go after those guys. Maybe we could bomb, um, New Zealand or something.

Shennanigans

Let's just say they came from Iran or something.

/BOMBS AWAY!

CNN (new window)
This CNN article gives a little more info about the Al Qaeda claims.

They wants them some nooks!

/Praise be to Allah!!!
//Death to the Infidel!!!
///lalalalalalalalalalalala

Rest of the world: "No shiat, Sherlock."

Heck, I thought it was just politics as usual over there. They already got her father and two of her brothers, from what I've heard. Seems they can't just elect one candidate and not elect the other--somebody's gotta explode.

Isotope: Heck, I thought it was just politics as usual over there. They already got her father and two of her brothers, from what I've heard.

Yeah but suicide bombing is not the style for political assassination... that is the means that a religiously driven crazy uses.

Code_Archeologist: Yeah but suicide bombing is not the style for political assassination

Yeah, I heard her father was hanged...not sure about anybody else. I guess upping the body count by >=20 is religious whacko kind of thing to do.

Afternoon_Delight: FTFA: Furious supporters, many of them blaming President Pervez Musharraf's government for the shooting and bombing attack on the former prime minister, rampaged through several cities in violence that left at least 23 dead less than two weeks before crucial elections.


Ain't islam great?

Sounds like a typical English soccer match.

Mordant: Al Qaeda and the Taliban...someone should really go after those guys. Maybe we could bomb, um, New Zealand or something.

I laughed at this the most.

FLMountainMan: Sounds like a typical English soccer match.

Since when have soccer fans used car bombs?

Rest of the world: "Uh, yeah, you would say that.."

Now the story is she fell and smashed her head on something in the car. So both the bomb and bullets missed her. This assassination was dumb luck.

It might be obvious to you, submitter, but since only 15% of Pakistani Muslims think that Arabs carried out the 9/11 attacks (new window), they might need more convincing.

And Pakistan Intelligence worked [works?] closely with the Taliban. (new window)

A_D:

Ain't islam great?

Certainly no one else in Pakistan had anything to gain by her death.

/your sarcasm meter should be peaking
//tap the glass, jiggle the handle

Yeah, that's what every dictator says when the kill people so they can tighten their hold on the government.

If Pakistan wants to really clear the air, they should allow a UN investigative team to examine the evidence and see where it leads. Bhutto herself thought that the attempt on her life previous to this one was put together by Musharaff's backers. It's convenient to blame Al Queda, but we shouldn't forget that Pakistan's near-dictatorship is plenty brutal in it's own right, and has shown itself capable of such in the past. If Pakistan was really worried about Al Queda, they would open their borders to NATO troops so that we could pursue Al Queda across the Afghani border.

Al-Qaeda Derangement Syndrome?
Taliban Derangement Syndrome?

Naaaaaaaah!

and Pakistan are behind the Taliban and Al-Qaeda...

Black_Flame: If Pakistan was really worried about Al Queda

Pakistan has done more to fight the war on terror than the US has. Most of the high ranking Al Qeada and Taliban people that the US has in custody were captured by Pakistani security inside their own country while we were invading Iraq on the pretext of WMDs.

Afternoon_Delight: Ain't islam great?

It's horrible. Thank goodness no one kills anyone else here in Jeebusland.

Something sounds suspicious here:

Why would they be going after Bhutto and not Musharaff? They could've greated a hell of a lot chaos by taking out the countries leader than they would killing a former Prime Minister and critic of Musharaff. Has the Pakistani government produced any real evidence yet, other than what they pulled off of message boards?

Later on, ... ISI began to blossom, assuming many responsibilities outside the military intelligence area. In fact, you could combine CIA, FBI and military intelligence under the umbrella of ISI.

In terms of ISI's power, it ... was enormously expanded during the jihad, when you had [a] huge flow of resources via the CIA, which was ISI's counterpart into Pakistan.

There was a category in the CIA budget at that time which dealt with infrastructure of ISI, and ISI received hundreds of millions of U.S. dollars for its own infrastructure. That was in addition to weapons going to the mujahideen, transportation of the weapons from China or Egypt or elsewhere in the world. This was a separate budget category. It amounted to an awful lot of money, which poured into ISI coffers and ... permitted ISI to expand its involvement not only inside Pakistan, but also outside of Pakistan. (new window)

Musharaff was allowing the Taliban to attack NATO forces in Afghanistan. Musharaff has been providing the Taliban safe haven for years. Taliban is a Musharaff supporter.

Fark Lord of the Sith: Certainly no one else in Pakistan had anything to gain by her death.

/your sarcasm meter should be peaking
//tap the glass, jiggle the handle

Yeah, I'm sure that an opposition political leader would never be killed by a corrupt government which could then place the blame on an enemy the rest of the world is already willing to hate.

Hmm, Al-Qaeda isn't really the type to do a political assassination. They're more into blowing shiat up and causing chaos and terror. Methinks it was someone else, since Al-Qaeda likes to take credit for anything the U.S. would have a negative view on.

Besides, Al-Qaeda has to know that Pakistan's nukes are pretty much out of their reach, no matter who gets assassinated at the moment.

Black_Flame: If Pakistan wants to really clear the air, they should allow a UN investigative team to examine the evidence and see where it leads. Bhutto herself thought that the attempt on her life previous to this one was put together by Musharaff's backers. It's convenient to blame Al Queda, but we shouldn't forget that Pakistan's near-dictatorship is plenty brutal in it's own right, and has shown itself capable of such in the past. If Pakistan was really worried about Al Queda, they would open their borders to NATO troops so that we could pursue Al Queda across the Afghani border.

Pakistan is also worried about itself. Allowing infidel troops to fight inside Pakistan would be disastrous for the government. They would like to hide this fact but a lot of people support the Taliban (as did the government before 9/11) and even AQ. It's possible that the elements of the regime were behind this attack. There are plenty of jihadist sympathizers in Pakistani politics.

Captain Latvia: Shennanigans

This!


Couldn't Musharref arrange (very indirectly) for the killing to happen, and then make his case that Al-Queda was indisputably behind it instead, transferring the heat away from himself, and presenting a case that Americans are sure to accept without any questions?


/kinda like paying a random crack addict $10 to kill your ex-wife. No direct connection to you, and you can blame it on "random street crime" with some small measure of credibility.
//what with Americans going with whatever knee-jerk reaction strikes them first

I heard that the explosion wasn't really cuased by the guy blowing himself up, and was really a missile.

bill_01915: Pakistan has done more to fight the war on terror than the US has.

like this:

August 18, 2005: Taliban Rebound in Afghanistan with ISI Help
Knight Ridder reports, "Nearly four years after a US-led military intervention toppled them from power, the Taliban has re-emerged as a potent threat to stability in Afghanistan. Though it's a far cry from the mass movement that overran most of the country in the 1990s, today's Taliban is fighting a guerrilla war with new weapons, including portable anti-aircraft missiles, and equipment bought with cash sent through Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, according to Afghan and Western officials.... The Taliban is now a disparate assemblage of radical groups estimated to number several thousand, far fewer than when it was in power before November 2001. The fighters operate in small cells that occasionally come together for specific missions. They're unable to hold territory or defeat coalition troops.... The Taliban insurgents have adopted some of the terrorist tactics that their Iraqi counterparts have used to stoke popular anger at the Iraqi government and the US military. They've stalled reconstruction and fomented sectarian tensions in a country that remains mired in poverty and corruption, illegal drugs and ethnic and political hatred." Most of the original top leaders were never captured. Some who were briefly held and then released, such as former Defense Minister Mullah Obaidullah Akhund, are part of the resurgence. Forty-four US soldiers have been killed in the last six months. Afghan and Western officials claim that the Taliban continues to be supported by Pakistan's ISI. Pakistan "seeks a weak government in [Afghanistan] that it can influence." It is claimed that the Taliban are allowed to maintain training camps and arms depots just across the border from Pakistan. [Knight Ridder, 8/18/2005]


January 17, 2007: Mullah Omar Allegedly in Pakistan Under ISI Protection
A captured Taliban spokesman claims that Taliban leader Mullah Omar is living in Pakistan under the protection of the ISI. Muhammad Hanif, a.k.a. Abdul Haq Haji Gulroz, one of two Taliban spokesmen, was recently captured by the Afghan government. He is seen on video saying to his captors, "[Omar] lives in Quetta [a Pakistan border town]. He is protected by the ISI." He further claims that the ISI funds and equips Taliban suicide bombings and former ISI Director Hamid Gul supports and funds the insurgency. The Pakistani government denies the allegations and claims Omar has not been seen in Pakistan. [BBC, 1/17/2007; Daily Telegraph, 1/19/2007]

Muta: Musharaff was allowing the Taliban to attack NATO forces in Afghanistan. Musharaff has been providing the Taliban safe haven for years. Taliban is a Musharaff supporter.

Probably not that blatant. But he's a lesser evil compared to Bhutto in the Taliban's eyes. He offers token resistance.

BTW: anyone remember this "gaff"

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., came under fire for an Aug. 1 speech in which he said he would go after high-value Al Qaeda targets in Pakistan if the country's president was not willing to act.

Afternoon_Delight:
Yes, yes of course. This 'had nothing to do with islam', 'christians are just as bad', 'Bush is the real culprit', 'the crusades', blah, blah, blah.

We covered this ground yesterday. If you blame islam for muslim terror attacks, kidnappings, hijackings, shootings, beheadings, torture chambers, amputations, acid throwing, violent rioting, etc, etc, then you're a bigot.

What you will learn on Fark.com is that islam is never responsible for anything - oh, except for inventing math. Islam did that. Islam did it.


It's funny to me that you aren't celebrating that so many Muslims were killed and wishing that even more had been killed instead.

Why not just drop all the pretense and say what we all know you really mean?


/everyone here knows you're some sort of neo-nazi and that anything you post is just hate-filled bigotry
//oh yeah, and we aren't supposed to respond to you
///D'oh!

Jha: Hmm, Al-Qaeda isn't really the type to do a political assassination. They're more into blowing shiat up and causing chaos and terror. Methinks it was someone else, since Al-Qaeda likes to take credit for anything the U.S. would have a negative view on.

Besides, Al-Qaeda has to know that Pakistan's nukes are pretty much out of their reach, no matter who gets assassinated at the moment.




Would like a word with you...

ClicheGuevara07: Something sounds suspicious here:

Why would they be going after Bhutto and not Musharaff? They could've greated a hell of a lot chaos by taking out the countries leader than they would killing a former Prime Minister and critic of Musharaff. Has the Pakistani government produced any real evidence yet, other than what they pulled off of message boards?

There have been three full-blown (no pun intended) attempts to kill Musharraf since 9/11. Bhutto was an easier target, and AQ has shown its love of those.


Jha: Hmm, Al-Qaeda isn't really the type to do a political assassination.

Huh? Iraq has been rife with assassinations. Just recently a sheikh who opposed AQ was killed (new window). AQ (or Islamic militants in general, see Anwar Sadat for example) are not opposed to assassination by any means.

Thats what Bush and the neocons want you to think!

Afternoon_Delight: Yes, yes of course. This 'had nothing to do with islam', 'christians are just as bad', 'Bush is the real culprit', 'the crusades', blah, blah, blah.

I'm not saying that. It was a political assassination. You could argue (very, very effectively) that the method used is more common among Muslims, but to act as though the motive was religious...you might want to present some evidence that the beef with Bhutto was specifically related to Islam in particular.

Political assassinations happen everywhere, not just in Muzzie countries.

Afternoon_Delight: What you will learn on Fark.com is that islam is never responsible for anything - oh, except for inventing math. Islam did that. Islam did it.

*sigh*

Greeks. Indians. Mayans (or rather the Olmecs). Islam preserved it as well as the works of Aristotle with greatly impacted Christianity when it was reintroduced.

Anyways.

It could simply be stone cold politics. We never see politics overshadow religion here in the US from the Religious Right. Just a though.

Toht:
/everyone here knows you're some sort of neo-nazi and that anything you post is just hate-filled bigotry
//oh yeah, and we aren't supposed to respond to you
///D'oh!

Nah, He's a psychopath. Most trolls display all the signs (new window).

bill_01915:

Pakistan has done more to fight the war on terror than the US has. Most of the high ranking Al Qeada and Taliban people that the US has in custody were captured by Pakistani security inside their own country while we were invading Iraq on the pretext of WMDs.

If by "high ranking" you mean second-tier jerk-offs.

How many TFers have blamed Bush yet? I guess that's fair if you also blame Clinton for Rwanda.

His name Achmed bin Oswald. He acted alone.

A_D:

Ain't islam great?

That was broadly obtuse.

Sure, Bhutto recently predicted that Musharraf would probably have her killed, and the state police reportedly abandoned their posts just before the assassination, and the bombing happened in an area controlled by Musharraf loyalists, and sure, the assassination will certainly help advance Musharraf's political goals...

...but if the Pakistani Interior Minister can decisively conclude one day after the event that Al Qaeda is to blame and FOX News agrees, who am I to question that?

Captain Darling: Pakistan is also worried about itself. Allowing infidel troops to fight inside Pakistan would be disastrous for the government. They would like to hide this fact but a lot of people support the Taliban (as did the government before 9/11) and even AQ. It's possible that the elements of the regime were behind this attack. There are plenty of jihadist sympathizers in Pakistani politics.

Yeah, and most of them are in the military, which backs Musharaff.

I saw Joe Biden on the tv last night saying that roughly 70% of the population in Pakistan is secular and opposed to the creation of a theocracy in the country. Bhutto, for all her faults, seemed to represent the best chance to empower that majority.

Even if we can't yet be sure which band of thugs did this, it's reasonable to think Musharraf would much rather have dealt with the PPP than the Taliban. He already had a cease fire agreement with them this year and, would you believe it, the Islamsists didn't honor the agreement.

Afternoon_Delight: What you will learn on Fark.com is that islam is never responsible for anything - oh, except for inventing math. Islam did that. Islam did it.

Actualy, Islam didn't even do that. The concept of "zero" is falsly attributed to Islam, but it was created by the Hindus. Muslims simply introduced it to the west.

This is a good link that gives the rundown on Islam's position on scientific advancement. The Myths of Islam: Science. (new window)

To sum up, although the Islamic religion is not entirely hostile to science, neither should it be confused as a facilitator. The great achievements that are said to have come out of the Islamic world were made either by non-Muslims who happened to be under Islamic rule, or by heretics who usually had little interest in Islam. Scientific discovery tapers off dramatically as Islam asserts dominance, until it eventually peters out altogether.

Jha Quote 2007-12-28 01:55:58 PM
Hmm, Al-Qaeda isn't really the type to do a political assassination. They're more into blowing shiat up and causing chaos and terror. Methinks it was someone else, since Al-Qaeda likes to take credit for anything the U.S. would have a negative view on.

Bhutto was promising to flush out Al-Queda, clean up the town. Anyone wonder why else would they put a price on her head?

The people in Pakistan are in a panic about this. They're afraid of what their country is going to become under a dictator like this. Bhutto's brother and father were both killed and she was on the level of a savior. They thought that she would be the way to get Musharraf out of office. Musharraf was behind this assassination and he had the motive and the means to do it. It wasn't terrorists, it wasn't al-Qaeda, and Osama bin Laden had nothing to gain by this. That's just silly.