Why? Just like Bush was?

/When Fascism Comes In This Country it Will Come Wrapped in a Flag and Carrying a Cross

The Republican Party is rapidly becoming as fractured as the "big tent" Democratic Party.

Just an observation - no value judgement there. But I tend to think (hope) it help equalize the parties.

An Obama or Huckabee win in the the primaries will be the only thing that would make me vote Democrat. Huckabee's an idiot.

b2theory: Why? Just like Bush was?

/When Fascism Comes In This Country it Will Come Wrapped in a Flag and Carrying a Cross

Oooohhh....you're so witty. Probably the first farker to ever post that quote.


In the last five minutes.

FLMountainMan: Huckabee's an idiot.

How is he different from any of the other Republican candidates?

Diogenes: The Republican Party is rapidly becoming as fractured as the "big tent" Democratic Party.

Just an observation - no value judgement there. But I tend to think (hope) it help equalize the parties.

Exactly, what drove the republican dominance they enjoyed in the electorate for a while was that they had a core which was very tightly wrapped and hard to splinter groups off. The Democrats thrive on and seem to want to embrace that they're really just a bunch of little groups under the "big tent" but it makes them too easy to separate.

The further advancement of the "religious right" within the Republican party will eventually (and hopefully I pray) cause the actual fiscal conservatives within the party to take the party back. I only hope it happens sooner than later.

`Mike Huckabee is not an economic conservative,' said Pat Toomey, a former Pennsylvania congressman and the club's president. ``He's the only Republican in the field who really is truly a big-government liberal.'

That is because people who are Republican for the "social values" side and those who vote Republican for the fiscal policies don't really have much overlap. So, when a GOP candidate doesn't court one of those sides, that stark contrast sticks out like a sore thumb.

The whole "values" thing has been a total carny act for the bulk of the Republican party. It's a way to get the rubes to vote for candidates who, in the whole, espouse policies that are not in their best interests, and often outright harm them.

"Well, no, we won't do anything about health care, and we'll let mortgage brokers ass-rape you, and we won't do a damn thing about illegal immigration or outsourcing of jobs...but if you vote for a Democrat, homos will marry!"

You know who else ran as a religious conservative?

/I'm just sayin' -is all.

Chuck Wagon: FLMountainMan: Huckabee's an idiot.

How is he different from any of the other Republican candidates?

FTFY.

Chuck Wagon: How is he different from any of the other Republican candidates?

No other GOP candidate has proposed putting gays in concentration camps or reinstituing slavery. Those are some pretty big differences, right there.

revskippy: The further advancement of the "religious right" within the Republican party will eventually (and hopefully I pray) cause the actual fiscal conservatives within the party to take the party back. I only hope it happens sooner than later.

i dream of the day of being able to vote for a sincerely fiscally conservative, small government candidate. so long as they espouse the small government mentality, i couldn't care less what values they hold, because they won't legislate those values.

Just like Hillary is serious about "ending the war", right?

Hideously Gigantic Smurf: Just like Hillary is serious about "ending the war", right?

As serious as Bush is about stopping gay marriage.

jake_lex: The whole "values" thing has been a total carny act for the bulk of the Republican party. It's a way to get the rubes to vote for candidates who, in the whole, espouse policies that are not in their best interests, and often outright harm them.

"Well, no, we won't do anything about health care, and we'll let mortgage brokers ass-rape you, and we won't do a damn thing about illegal immigration or outsourcing of jobs...but if you vote for a Democrat, homos will marry!"

This. And the sad thing is, Ma and Pa Kettle fall for it everytime. Because, if they don't... those damn dirty Dems will allow brown people to buy land in your HOA.

rppp01a: As serious as Bush is about stopping gay marriage.

I'd say he's done a pretty decent job of that, actually. It's certainly not what he's most famous for, but I haven't seen a flood of teh meried homogheys around recently.

He's the only Republican in the field who really is truly a big-government liberal.

total bullshiat

I do *respect* Huckabee for one thing, he does seem to accept the rules of his religion completely.
For all the things he believes that I find insane (creationism, gays, aids, jesus as a political advisor, etc...), I do think he also embraces the positive aspects of religion (helping the poor, education, general kindness). He seems like a genuinely nice guy, a jesus-shiat-crazy nice guy.

/Currently reading "The Year of Living Biblically", love it.

SusanIvanova: rppp01a: As serious as Bush is about stopping gay marriage.

I'd say he's done a pretty decent job of that, actually. It's certainly not what he's most famous for, but I haven't seen a flood of teh meried homogheys around recently.

The Defense of Marriage Act was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996. Just saying

I'm pretty sure Richardson is a version of Huckabee that's traveled forward in time.

atlanta_ufo: The Defense of Marriage Act was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996.

I'm very well aware of this. So, with that signed, what else does anyone expect Bush to do to prove his anti-gay-marriage bona fides? The only thing that could make it even "more banned" is a constitutional amendment, a process in which the president plays no part. So what exactly about Bush makes him a less-than-ardent anti-gay-marriage guy?

FTA: [Huckabee's]sort of a populist, and that doesn't sell too well on Wall Street

I disagree with this. Huckabee's problem is that he is about two steps away from being one of those religious fanatics walking down the interstate with a cross on wheels over his shoulder. I'm with the person up above who said the only way he'd vote democrat is if Huckabee wins the nomination.

SusanIvanova: atlanta_ufo: The Defense of Marriage Act was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996.

I'm very well aware of this. So, with that signed, what else does anyone expect Bush to do to prove his anti-gay-marriage bona fides? The only thing that could make it even "more banned" is a constitutional amendment, a process in which the president plays no part. So what exactly about Bush makes him a less-than-ardent anti-gay-marriage guy?

I'm sure Bush is, though Chenney's daughter has to be a fky-in-the-ointment topic on gay marriage around the White House.

SusanIvanova: atlanta_ufo: The Defense of Marriage Act was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996.

I'm very well aware of this. So, with that signed, what else does anyone expect Bush to do to prove his anti-gay-marriage bona fides? The only thing that could make it even "more banned" is a constitutional amendment, a process in which the president plays no part. So what exactly about Bush makes him a less-than-ardent anti-gay-marriage guy?

He is an ardent "anti-gay-marriage guy". The vast majority of the country is "anti-gay-marriage" and has been since it's founding, including many of your liberal Gods, so don't act like Bush is Satan for doing something that most of them agree with.

Just bide your time and the rest of the country will eventually come around, I believe.

jake_lex: The whole "values" thing has been a total carny act for the bulk of the Republican party. It's a way to get the rubes to vote for candidates who, in the whole, espouse policies that are not in their best interests, and often outright harm them.

Right here. And the religion excuse is failing. If the economy blows up, begging for Jesus and throwing our spare dimes at any hick with a Bible and a PA system isn't going to suddenly become the next American pastime.

radioshack: He is an ardent "anti-gay-marriage guy". The vast majority of the country is "anti-gay-marriage" and has been since it's founding, including many of your liberal Gods, so don't act like Bush is Satan for doing something that most of them agree with.

Just bide your time and the rest of the country will eventually come around, I believe.

I was responding to rppp01a, who indicated that Bush wasn't particularly committed to preventing gay marriage, in his opinion. Which struck me as quite stupid, since Bush has done as much as he can on the issue (which admittedly isn't much), and appears fully committed to his position.

And yes, I'm quite aware that on a national basis, gay marriage isn't going to happen anytime soon. For those who want it (which includes me), the individual states are the appropriate venue to pursue it at this time. Once fifteen or so have legalized it, then maybe it's time to look for a national solution.

The last thing on earth that the hard core floor-humpers would want in a presidential candidate is someone who embraces actual Christian values. Their all-time nightmare would be if Jesus himself showed up. They'd shiat their pants, en masse.

liberalish: I do *respect* Huckabee for one thing, he does seem to accept the rules of his religion completely....He seems like a genuinely nice guy

But Huckabee's got a temper. That's not a good thing for a President.

Normally, he's a nice guy who makes lots of incompetent mistakes. And when he's accused of mistakes, sometimes he's a vengeful guy who attacks his critics with strawman arguments. Other times, he lives his religion and sincerely apologizes.

Huckabee simply doesn't have the maturity to be President.

The Dreaded Rear Admiral: And the sad thing is, Ma and Pa Kettle fall for it everytime.

As a foreigner observing American politics firsthand for the last decade or so, it really boggles my mind how the red/blue electoral map plays out. It's completely backwards. All those inland farmers and otherwise unsophisticated people managed to vote, not just slightly, but COMPLETELY against their interests in voting capitalist whore Republican.

And it would be one thing if the politicians actually delivered on their promises to one issue voters. But after seven years of having control of all branches: Roe is still on the books, there's been no gay marriage amendment, no flag burning amendment, no border wall or enforcement, nada. So who knows, maybe they will wise up and realise they're being used. I'd bet they will never discern the line between stupidity and blind faith.

He's not a fiscal conservative? As opposed to Bush?

The fact is that what people say during the campaign is absolutely worthless as a guide to what they'll do if elected. Liars, all of them.

Everything conservative Republicans consider "values" is all stuff from the Old Testament. The New Testament can go fark itself as far as they're concerned. If they converted to Judaism, they'd look a lot less hypocritical.

Huckabee's Christian background is his best point, but it's hypocritical when he supports the occupation of Iraq.

rush_limbaugh_sent_me

way to red herring that argument


"your" "values" are a pretty much "burn them all down if their not white middle class christians like me"

Mugato brought up an important point. People who invoke god and Christ all the time, but fail to adhere to Jesus's teachings. Why are all christian fundamentalists/conservatives not accepting of differences of other people?

/jesus would just let it slide, man

Don't feed the trolls people. Without attention, these sad, lonely, basement-dwelling virgins will wither up and die.

Opiate of the Lasses: The Dreaded Rear Admiral: And the sad thing is, Ma and Pa Kettle fall for it everytime.

As a foreigner observing American politics firsthand for the last decade or so, it really boggles my mind how the red/blue electoral map plays out. It's completely backwards. All those inland farmers and otherwise unsophisticated people managed to vote, not just slightly, but COMPLETELY against their interests in voting capitalist whore Republican.

And it would be one thing if the politicians actually delivered on their promises to one issue voters. But after seven years of having control of all branches: Roe is still on the books, there's been no gay marriage amendment, no flag burning amendment, no border wall or enforcement, nada. So who knows, maybe they will wise up and realise they're being used. I'd bet they will never discern the line between stupidity and blind faith.

The sad truth is because most rural folk are incredibly stupid when it comes to anything outside of their sphere. The typical rural American tries to justify his existence in terms of being the constant loser and plays this as 'rugged individualism.' They put a lot of their identity into taking care of themselves and honestly get off on the idea of suffering in many forms. Can't make the bills that month? Can't afford the mortgage? Well, a little spit and shine and hard work and everything will work itself out because it's a measure of my worth! And when shiat gets too bad? Squealing for Jesus time, all to justify the fact that the American rural lifestyle has beaten the resistance out of you to such an extent that if anybody offers anything to help out, you can give your undying loyalty to them like a whipped dog gives to its master.

Christianity just justifies this tactic into something noble.

AFter reading a few articles on creationism today, I realized something about the rural types who vote for Republicans. These people simply have no sense of detached pride. Every slight against them, no matter how academic the argument, is a grievous mark on their self-esteem. They see the equality given to every American (give or take, it's not perfect) as so absolute that any difference is seen as pointless oneupsmanship. That's why you always get people shouting about Jesus when they're argued against and the like. It's not just that they don't have the facilities to examine their beliefs, it's that they are their beliefs to such an extent that any questioning of them results in a personal insult. As a result, it's impossible to really communicate with these people because the art of detachment from their viewpoints is seen as something they cannot deal with. They will not change because that would mean they would have to change and they can't do that.

It's so pathetic that nothing short of a complete destruction of their way of living is the only thing to make them change and even then, it'll take a few generations before they can do it. And yet, they seem to welcome it. It boggles the mind.

Guntram Shatterhand: The sad truth is because most rural folk are incredibly stupid when it comes to anything outside of their sphere. The typical rural American tries to justify his existence in terms of being the constant loser and plays this as 'rugged individualism.' They put a lot of their identity into taking care of themselves and honestly get off on the idea of suffering in many forms. Can't make the bills that month? Can't afford the mortgage? Well, a little spit and shine and hard work and everything will work itself out because it's a measure of my worth! And when shiat gets too bad? Squealing for Jesus time, all to justify the fact that the American rural lifestyle has beaten the resistance out of you to such an extent that if anybody offers anything to help out, you can give your undying loyalty to them like a whipped dog gives to its master.

Christianity just justifies this tactic into something noble.

AFter reading a few articles on creationism today, I realized something about the rural types who vote for Republicans. These people simply have no sense of detached pride. Every slight against them, no matter how academic the argument, is a grievous mark on their self-esteem. They see the equality given to every American (give or take, it's not perfect) as so absolute that any difference is seen as pointless oneupsmanship. That's why you always get people shouting about Jesus when they're argued against and the like. It's not just that they don't have the facilities to examine their beliefs, it's that they are their beliefs to such an extent that any questioning of them results in a personal insult. As a result, it's impossible to really communicate with these people because the art of detachment from their viewpoints is seen as something they cannot deal with. They will not change because that would mean they would have to change and they can't do that.

It's so pathetic that nothing short of a complete destruction of their way of living is the only thing to make them change and even then, it'll take a few generations before they can do it. And yet, they seem to welcome it. It boggles the mind.

Let me see if I have this right:

"Rural Americans are wrong because they're stupid, stupid, stupid!!!! They're so stupid that when you call them stupid they take it as an insult. How stupid is that?"

/end paraphrase

I think you're the problem.

/Liberal

Opiate of the Lasses: As a foreigner observing American politics firsthand for the last decade or so, it really boggles my mind how the red/blue electoral map plays out. It's completely backwards. All those inland farmers and otherwise unsophisticated people managed to vote, not just slightly, but COMPLETELY against their interests in voting capitalist whore Republican.

And a I've heard farmers say "It boggles my mind how completely backwards all those snooty, selfish and otherwise whiny foreigners managed to vote completely against their interests in voting for socialist whores"

Yes, both are absurd generalizations. You made yours by assuming all farmers are unsophisticated and unable to form a valid political opinion.

/Lives around farmers.
//Found them to be just as biased as city-dwelling Democrats. Too many play politics like rooting for sports teams.

Poopspasm: I think you're the problem.

I dunno, I thought it was well said. He pointed to their way of life yielding stupid results, which they can't change because it would mean changing their way of life.

There's not always two sides to every story. The truth is not always in the middle. Sometimes a turd is just a turd, and calling it a turd doesn't make you mean or bigoted.

rush_limbaugh_sent_me: Your values is to ignore the genocide of Arabs and Africans and other darkskinnned people in other countries. Yet you call me a racist for wanting to the terrorists that kill these innocent people to get what they deserve.

So what're you doing to help those poor Arabs and Africans aside from b*tching about it on the internet like the sad internet tough guy troll that you are?

rush_limbaugh_sent_me: What about your willingness to ignore/forgive/apologize the actions of terrorists like those in Pakistan today?

You don't know dick about me. I'm not even a liberal, except maybe compared to people like you.

My point was that the values in the Republican's version of Christianity is from the Old Testament but they ignore the New Testament entirely. Hating gays, farking over the poor...etc. So no, I wasn't putting down Christianity. I was putting down people like you, who pretend to be real Christians.

If Jesus is going to kick anyone's ass on Judgment Day, it'll be people like you.

The modern politics of religion is about imposing your religious views on others by banning activities conservatives don't like and indoctrinating the young with crap like intelligent design. The fear from the right is that Huckabee might actually support something a bit more Jesusy than promoting fear and ignorance. I wouldn't worry too much about Huckabee if I was a wealthy Republican. There were really only a few things that looked even a little progressive on his site and I don't think they really count:

He had something listed about fair trade and that that had more to do with his fair/flat tax proposal than actual trade agreements. As his tax plan would either cause a huge deficit that would further ruin the dollar and US Treasury securities or a big middle class tax increase while lowering taxes on the wealthy.

There was a farm subsidy section but it looked like most of that was focused on the industry in general instead of helping out smaller farms.

The anti-immigration thing really isn't a liberal issue and isn't a religious one either but tightening border security reduces cheap labor and I an see where big business might not like that. His plan doesn't include a provision to fine employers of illegal immigrants and most of the Republican candidates have some variation on this theme except McCain.

rush_limbaugh_sent_me: Mugato: Everything conservative Republicans consider "values" is all stuff from the Old Testament. The New Testament can go fark itself as far as they're concerned. If they converted to Judaism, they'd look a lot less hypocritical.

Is your sadistic support of abortion a value? What about your willingness to ignore/forgive/apologize the actions of terrorists like those in Pakistan today? It's amusing when liberals preach values when you guys have no values and hate anybody that does.

ah yes, because every liberal applauded the assassination of Bhutto today.

Please, show evidence of just one doing so. or go DIAF.

Opiate of the Lasses: Poopspasm: I think you're the problem.

I dunno, I thought it was well said. He pointed to their way of life yielding stupid results, which they can't change because it would mean changing their way of life.

There's not always two sides to every story. The truth is not always in the middle. Sometimes a turd is just a turd, and calling it a turd doesn't make you mean or bigoted.

It may be that he has a point about middle America not voting in their own self-interest.

However, to castigate probably a good 40-50% of the country as morons because they don't share his beliefs, then to go on to claim that they won't listen to reason because their tiny peabrains can't handle the sheer enormity of his wisdom...that's just repulsive. I'd like to think that one can argue a point without stooping to insults or insisting that the only cause for disagreement is the idiocy of those who don't share your beliefs. Reasonable disagreement is not just possible, it's inevitable. The degree of intolerance on display on that post is something I expect at Free Republic.

helix400: You made yours by assuming all farmers are unsophisticated and unable to form a valid political opinion

Where did I say ALL? Yikes. Maybe I should post a disclaimer. Here's one: each person is different, and has a different bundle of issues in different order. HOWEVER, when a group votes, BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION, for a candidate whose platform is for the most part antithetical to their needs based on one overriding issue with which said candidate purports to share their values, and the candidate remains true to form on those other issues AND farks them on the one issue they sold out for, and they come back for more, those people are stupid. I'm sorry. No other way to put it.

pardon the run-on

rush_limbaugh_sent_me:

Liberal.... blahblahblah.... Liberal.... blahblahblahblahblahblah.... Liberal.... blahblah.... Liberal.... blahblahblahblah.... Liberal.... blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah.... Liberal.... blahblahblah.... Liberal.

If that word ever vanished, you would go mute.

"Wall Street Republicans" apparently means some guy in Washington that call themselves "Club for Growth". Funny, I thought Wall Street was in NYC.

Oh there's also an Australian newspaper involved.

Then there's Beauregard the retriever. He weighed in as well.

The true is that a lot of people on Wall Street who spent money on the Bush campaign are wishing they hadn't and are supporting Hillary.

one last time to feed the troll..
Your values is to ignore the genocide of Arabs and Africans and other darkskinnned people in other countries. Yet you call me a racist for wanting to the terrorists that kill these innocent people to get what they deserve.

You don't seem very tolerant of Christians. You demonize them as a group. You are a christian-phobe and a bigot. This country was founded by religious people trying to escape fascists like you. You also smear white people as though a majority of white people are racists. You liberals have a monopoly on hate right now.

What? I said nothign of the sort. YOu are directing personal attacks claiming I said things I didnt say. I do personally believe america needs to extend its soft power (aid, donations, medical supplies, culture) . I am not ignoring the plight of the African people, my government is, because its more interested in extending short term profits of key business interests through our trade relations with china, more keen on protecting the absolutist, corrupt Saudi Arabia, than finding those who caused 9/11 and helping out the tragic situation that the third world countries find themselves in. The american government doesnt give a shiat about africa, that has nothing to do with me. I didn't vote for this turd sandwich, but you did. So why dont you blame yourself for Genocide in Darfur or Rwanda?

For that fact, the corporatacracy of today doesnt really give a shiat about anyone, unless youre in that top 1%.

This country was founded by a peopel of diverse religious beliefs; the founding fathers were deists/clockmakers. Maryland was partially founded as a refuge for atheists. Mass. Bay was founded by puritans (I actualyl descend from mayflower pilgrims).
Like it or not, america is a secular country. If it didnt used to be, then it is definitely is today, as our national identity as changed. Once we fully committed ourselves to open up to different societys and cultures, we forever dropped any notion

Besides that, religious/areligoius freedom is guarenteed in that piece of paper our president uses to wipe his arse.


I dont have a problem with christians. I was born and raised christian. I have a problem with christians messing with my secular society, and everybody elses beliefs. I have strong problems with their rejection of sciences, i have a problem with them seeking to transform America in ever corner to be that "city on the hill" that will never be.

You sir, need to stop focusing on blame, but focus on solutions.

/Real christians emphasize love, not hate
/Real christians unite, not divide
/Real christians are pacifists, not warmongers
//WWRJD?
///someone cue that internet tough guy pic

Once again people:

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS

That is all.

Opiate of the Lasses: those people are stupid. I'm sorry. No other way to put it.

And I'm saying you are making a wide generalization which could be applied to virtually any political group, and not just inland farmers.

ilambiquated:
The true is that a lot of people on Wall Street who spent money on the Bush campaign are wishing they hadn't and are supporting Hillary.

Maybe they realize with Chelsea now an official Wall Streeter, Hillary is the candidate that will support them best.