So they're implying that the US Congress has no integrity. That's hardly news.

It's still better than the alternative.

I'd rather have a bunch of pissant countries attention whoring in some building in New York instead of just up and shooting at each other. Much cheaper in terms of global economic and political stability.

I know how this got green-lit. Someone with a big hangover realized he could spread the feeling around, shared misery is so much easier to take.

The mistaken assumption is that there are ANY governmental bodies with integrity in the first place.

soze: It's still better than the alternative. I'd rather have a bunch of pissant countries attention whoring in some building in New York instead of just up and shooting at each other. Much cheaper in terms of global economic and political stability.

Can we at least TRY the alternative before so smugly dismissing it?

soze: I'd rather have a bunch of pissant countries attention whoring in some building in New York instead of just up and shooting at each other. Much cheaper in terms of global economic and political stability.

They do that anyway, war still happens, genocide is still occurring. Let the UN exist if they really want to, but the US should seriously cut its funding to the UN.

If a nutball like A_D doesn't like it, then it must be working.

Il Douchey: soze: It's still better than the alternative. I'd rather have a bunch of pissant countries attention whoring in some building in New York instead of just up and shooting at each other. Much cheaper in terms of global economic and political stability.

Can we at least TRY the alternative before so smugly dismissing it?

We tried that for the other five thousand years of human history. Didn't work out too well. Let's give this a go for a few more decades, could we please? We're not even to the point in history yet where we can start properly analyzing the UN's role.

Crosshair:

war still happens, genocide is still occurring.

I don't claim it's a perfect solution. It has certainly mitigated the extent to which stupid wars have been prosecuted, our own dalliancei in the current litter box notwithstanding.

More dialogue is better than less. The more time they spend talking is the less time they spend screwing something else up that actually matters to the Joes on their respective streets.

soze: We tried that for the other five thousand years of human history. Didn't work out too well. Let's give this a go for a few more decades, could we please? We're not even to the point in history yet where we can start properly analyzing the UN's role.

Stop making sense.

submitter: The list of illegal activities and instances of institutionalized bigotry would incite any governmental body with integrity to disband

and corrupt government bodies have disbanded voluntarily how often in history?

Am I too late to switch U.N. with the US government? Has someone done that already? Cause I'm here to mention it.

One day we'll get not the government he have and apparently deserve but the government we need, a government with the talent and wisdom to remember how to wield the UN we birthed in more rational times.

Afternoon_Delight: Since it's nothing but a US/Israel bashing forum anyway, I'd rather it not be in New York.

Put it in Brussels, Pyongyang, Tehran or Caracas. Put in Mecca, for all I care, or put it on some floating ship that 'sails the seas on missions of peace and progressive ideals'.

Just get the rat-infested mess the f*ck out of here. It's useless. Let Hugo Chavez have it.

My god...you have got to be the most backwards, bigoted, racist, classist, homophobic, head-in-the-sand chickenhawk piece of one-note crud I have EVER come across, in my entire life.

/I know it's all been said before, and probably more eloquently by others...but wow.

Mr. Xhin: The United Nations prevent many wars, regional and otherwise. It decreases the overall chaos in the world.

That's precisely why it's a problem. War is peace, and peace is war.

soze:We're not even to the point in history yet where we can start properly analyzing the UN's role.

So prolific in scandal has the United Nations become that it's getting hard to keep tabs. You can surf the channels, from rape by peacekeepers in the Congo, to theft at the World Meteorological Organization, to a Human Rights Commission crammed with despots; from inadequate auditing to botched management to wasted money to running the biggest heist in the history of humanitarian work--the Oil for Food program in Saddam's Iraq. ~C. Rosett

Oh, I think we have enough to "properly anylize" the drift.

/Get the U.S. out of the U.N., get the U.N out of the U.S.

soze: It's still better than the alternative.

I'd rather have a bunch of pissant countries attention whoring in some building in New York instead of just up and shooting at each other. Much cheaper in terms of global economic and political stability.

This "bunch of pissant countries" you're blathering about is 96% of the land area and population of the planet. What you are saying is that you hate EVERYONE.

That is the real message. You hate all foreigners, you hate the Democrats, you hate the Republicans in Congress, you hate the Republicans running for offices.

Ah, the city on the hill. The beacon of light and the hope for the world. You think you're that, but you aren't.

You know that you can automatically disregard someone who uses the word "islamofascism" and thinks global warming is a conspiracy of scientists.

I think the real reason for his antipathy for the UN is because it acts as a check against the power of the US to do what it will with the rest of the world.

The funny thing about the batshiat American right is that the more they fail, the more self confident they get.

Read Francis Fukuyam on the neocons. He blathers on and on about how much more "effective" American unilateralism is than consensus. And yet Bush's policies have completely failed. Everything the guy does turns to shiat.

I have a policy of firing sales guys that always seem to be able to come up with an excuse for their own failure. I prefer them just to say "well next month things will work out a little better."

glaurunge: I think the real reason for his antipathy for the UN is because it acts as a check against the power of the US to do what it will with the rest of the world.

And just which army are they gonna pull that off with anyways? If you think the UN is any sort of backstop against US imperialism, you are a blind fool too ignorant to be allowed to breed.

That aside - the UN is a massive failure. The little good they HAVE accomplished has been eclipsed by their greed, corruption and short sighted stupidity. I'd say that the UN is more of a hinderance to world peace than any sort of contributing body. Burn it down, and start over.

Another nice thing is the need to invoke Star Wars characters to support ones opinions. Like the guys who think Jack Bauer should be President.

In the real world, strutting aruond wearing a laser sword (a thing which does not really exist BTW) and a cape is not enough to solve real problems.

All this crap SOUNDS tough. But it is actually worse that useless. Americans raised on teevee think all problems are solveable with 30 minutes (including 3 commercial breaks) by talking tough and committing random acts of violence. Hey it works for the A-Team, why doesn'T it work in Iraq?

I love it when people mention the Oil For Food scandal as evidence of how corrupt the UN is and how unshakable US superiority is. Regardless of the fact that the US rep to the UN was also taking bribes from Saddam.

In general people do not care where the money comes from, as long as they get more of it. And they don't care who gets killed or beaten by the bribers, as long as they don't know them or have to see it happen.

Welcome to America, where you care about your double tall skim milk mocha latte but you could truly give a shiat less about what happens to the Iraqis.

The Republican foreign policy strategist par excellence. This guy is the intellectual godfather of Bush's various wars.

CalvinMorallis: My god...you have got to be the most backwards, bigoted, racist, classist, homophobic, head-in-the-sand chickenhawk piece of one-note crud I have EVER come across, in my entire life.

/I know it's all been said before, and probably more eloquently by others...but wow.

I'll second that. (But Larry Elders and Michael Savage are tied with him.)

goofycaca: I love it when people mention the Oil For Food scandal as evidence of how corrupt the UN is and how unshakable US superiority is. Regardless of the fact that the US rep to the UN was also taking bribes from Saddam.

In general people do not care where the money comes from, as long as they get more of it. And they don't care who gets killed or beaten by the bribers, as long as they don't know them or have to see it happen.

Welcome to America, where you care about your double tall skim milk mocha latte but you could truly give a shiat less about what happens to the Iraqis.

Not to mention the fact that the UN was 100% right about WMDs in IRaq, and the American government failed on so many levels at the same time they can't figureout who to blame.

The UIn also cured smallpox, maybe the worst disaese ever to plague mankind.

gooffycaca: I love it when people mention the Oil For Food scandal as evidence of how corrupt the UN is and how unshakable US superiority is. Regardless of the fact that the US rep to the UN was also taking bribes from Saddam.

Regardless of the U.S. rep's involvement, the Oil for Food scandal IS excellent evidence of how corrupt the UN is. Here (new window) is a reasonable assessment of recent UN hijinx; why do you defend these people??

Il Douchey: gooffycaca: I love it when people mention the Oil For Food scandal as evidence of how corrupt the UN is and how unshakable US superiority is. Regardless of the fact that the US rep to the UN was also taking bribes from Saddam.

Regardless of the U.S. rep's involvement, the Oil for Food scandal IS excellent evidence of how corrupt the UN is. Here (new window) is a reasonable assessment of recent UN hijinx; why do you defend these people??

I don't defend "those people" I merely point out that we are one of those people.

Afternoon_Delight Just get the rat-infested mess the f*ck out of here. It's useless. Let Hugo Chavez have it.

Afternoon_Delight, sorry but you're like the farking commies who took one look at the abused child laborers in the US industrial period and decided that capitalism was a rat-infested mess to run from.

You're short-sighted and completely unable to see the potential of the current course of the UN and that of the alternative backward idiocy of the past 1000 years.

And you speak in cliches like someone who watches TV too much.

Weaver95: glaurunge: I think the real reason for his antipathy for the UN is because it acts as a check against the power of the US to do what it will with the rest of the world.

And just which army are they gonna pull that off with anyways? If you think the UN is any sort of backstop against US imperialism, you are a blind fool too ignorant to be allowed to breed.

Because they establish a set of international norms for behavior. And in fact the UNSC can authorize military action and sanctions. It also gives a voice to the countries that otherwise might be at the complete mercy of much bigger foreign powers.

ilambiquated: The UIn also cured smallpox, maybe the worst disaese ever to plague mankind.

There is no cure for Smallpox; it was eradicated through vaccinations, jerkass.

A_D, let me explain something: Once you take the pro-torture position, you lose the moral high ground on - well, just about anything.

Or, to put it in terms wou'll probably find easier to deal with: You've given in to your fear and succumbed to the Dark Side. "Quicker. Easier. More seductive."

glaurunge: Because they establish a set of international norms for behavior. And in fact the UNSC can authorize military action and sanctions. It also gives a voice to the countries that otherwise might be at the complete mercy of much bigger foreign powers.

Oh yes....establishing those norms sure stopped the genocide in darfur. Or Gulf War I and II. Or any one of a hundred other mass murders, communist economic implosions, and petty dictators from illegally assuming power.

Mr. Xhin: The United Nations prevent many wars, regional and otherwise. It decreases the overall chaos in the world.

This hurts the profits of arms dealers and war profiteers, which is why the Republicans hate the institution.

wrong, the UN prolongs wars for decades. just example. how do arms dealers hate the UN for allowing hezbollah to rearm w/ zero resistance after the 2006 war? the UN HELPS ARMS DEALERS, its incompetence provides that veneer of authority required for decades long rearming and conflict.

The UN charter was mostly written by American traitor Alger Hiss, a paid agent of the KGB. 'Nuff said.

'Better jaw-jaw than war-war' as one of my favourite alcoholic and imperialistic racists once said.

I always know I'm doing something right in Fark Politics threads when I'm lambasted by both 'sides'.

Mr. Xhin: The United Nations prevent many wars, regional and otherwise.

Level of difficulty for your statement: Name one.

Il Douchey: gooffycaca: I love it when people mention the Oil For Food scandal as evidence of how corrupt the UN is and how unshakable US superiority is. Regardless of the fact that the US rep to the UN was also taking bribes from Saddam.


Really? The American ambassador to the UN was taking bribes? Name this outlaw.

Il Douchey: ilambiquated: The UIn also cured smallpox, maybe the worst disaese ever to plague mankind.

There is no cure for Smallpox; it was eradicated through vaccinations, jerkass.

Right, there were a couple of typos in that post.

Mart Laar's beard shaver:Il Douchey: gooffycaca: I love it when people mention the Oil For Food scandal as evidence of how corrupt the UN is and how unshakable US superiority is. Regardless of the fact that the US rep to the UN was also taking bribes from Saddam.
Really? The American ambassador to the UN was taking bribes? Name this outlaw.

I don't know that the US rep was on the take; I was saying that regardless of this, the Oil for Food scandal is evidence of how corrupt the UN is.

Also, your challenge to Mr. Xhin is bogus: prevented wars do not have names.

Il Douchey: Mart Laar's beard shaver:Il Douchey: gooffycaca: I love it when people mention the Oil For Food scandal as evidence of how corrupt the UN is and how unshakable US superiority is. Regardless of the fact that the US rep to the UN was also taking bribes from Saddam.
Really? The American ambassador to the UN was taking bribes? Name this outlaw.

I don't know that the US rep was on the take; I was saying that regardless of this, the Oil for Food scandal is evidence of how corrupt the UN is.

Also, your challenge to Mr. Xhin is bogus: prevented wars do not have names.

I would like you to name one war that the UN prevented. It doesn't have to have a name.

And you say that the "US rep to the UN was taking bribes". This person should have a name. Simple.

Weaver95:glaurunge: Because they establish a set of international norms for behavior. And in fact the UNSC can authorize military action and sanctions. It also gives a voice to the countries that otherwise might be at the complete mercy of much bigger foreign powers.

Oh yes....establishing those norms sure stopped the genocide in darfur. Or Gulf War I and II. Or any one of a hundred other mass murders, communist economic implosions, and petty dictators from illegally assuming power.

It's not the job of the UN to get rid of dictators and communists. It's there to give countries a forum for resolving their differences without having to resort to war. The same way that the court system prevents Microsoft and Apple from getting into gun battles by providing them an imparital venue for conflict resolution. And in that respect I think it's a success. That's not to say it couldn't be improved, for example by eleminating the permanent members of the security counsil. But what other mechanism is there for countries to resolve their conflicts nonviolently?

Now if you look at the police or the FBI, they can't stop every crime. Nobody then says "they're useless, let's get rid of them" because they can't guard every street corner and foil every robbery and murder. Though most would aknowledge that the police and FBI prevent a lot of crime through their mere existence.

glaurunge: Weaver95:glaurunge: Because they establish a set of international norms for behavior. And in fact the UNSC can authorize military action and sanctions. It also gives a voice to the countries that otherwise might be at the complete mercy of much bigger foreign powers.

Oh yes....establishing those norms sure stopped the genocide in darfur. Or Gulf War I and II. Or any one of a hundred other mass murders, communist economic implosions, and petty dictators from illegally assuming power.

It's not the job of the UN to get rid of dictators and communists. It's there to give countries a forum for resolving their differences without having to resort to war. The same way that the court system prevents Microsoft and Apple from getting into gun battles by providing them an imparital venue for conflict resolution. And in that respect I think it's a success. That's not to say it couldn't be improved, for example by eleminating the permanent members of the security counsil. But what other mechanism is there for countries to resolve their conflicts nonviolently?

Now if you look at the police or the FBI, they can't stop every crime. Nobody then says "they're useless, let's get rid of them" because they can't guard every street corner and foil every robbery and murder. Though most would aknowledge that the police and FBI prevent a lot of crime through their mere existence.

yah the UN is exactly like the courts if everyone ignored the courts and the courts had no enforcement power and there was no way to put violators in jail.

then yes the UN is exactly like the courts. so basically its all the supposed importance of the courts w/ zero of the things that make the courts work.

The only purpose the U.N. serves is to give France a bigger voice on the world stage than it deserves.

Mart Laars beard shaver:I would like you to name one war that the UN prevented. It doesn't have to have a name. And you say that the "US rep to the UN was taking bribes". This person should have a name. Simple.

First, I think the UN is lame; I doubt they have prevented any wars; but if they did, you could not name the war because the war would have no name because there would be no war to name. Second, I did not say "US rep to the UN was taking bribes" - I said whatever the US rep did or didn't do is irrelevant to the fact that the UN is a corrupt organization. Simple.

In all honesty I think Afternoon_Delight and Pocket Ninja are both right with their initial posts, but they're too busy at each others partisan throats to realize it.

Somebody ought to tell the writer of the editorial that if he's going to jabber on at such length over ground that's been stepped on more times than a gram of cocaine sold to a high school sophomore in North Dakota...

(no more Dennis Miller-style references, I promise)

...then at some point you're obligated to propose some kind of alternative. Otherwise you're just droning on and on, and lord knows the world already has more than enough leftist imbeciles doing just that.

The UN is a necessary evil, because it works quite nicely as a venue for back-channel communications that needn't go public. And they do okay on tamping down the small wars. When they try to tackle bigger issues is when the corruption and incompetence really kick in - Iraq, Rwanda, Sudan, and several dozen other "lesser" genocides that the New York Times relegates to page A30 until such time as they can get some great photos of dead people to put in the Sunday magazine section. "Pics or it didn't happen" was the rule back then, too.

I sure would like the UN to have a sister organization made up solely of nations whose citizens enjoy a high level of freedom, and nations who are striving in that direction - you know, the kind of nations we used to call "civilized", who were well worthy of that designation even accounting for the occasional human-rights flaw that wouldn't even qualify as a rounding error in Stalin's USSR or Mao's China.

Here is an interesting website that displays some of the data the UN has collected. The UN is an excellent source of data.

Gapminder (new window)

The American media have served the public very badly in recent years, witht the result that many people who think that the know what is going on in the world are actually profoundly and embarassingly ignorant.

One of the things gapfinder shows you is how much the demographics of the world has changed. I have heard the sentiment expressed in this forum to the affect that much of the world is poor people with short life spans who are reproducing like mad, and their are few of us who live long productive lives. In fact there is not much difference around the world in birth rates any more.

" any governmental body with integrity"

You need more oil for your lamp, subby? I can picture you out there, like Diogenes searching for an honest man, looking for a governmental body with integrity.

One very important job the UN does is in the area of vaccination. One of the main organizations dealing with vaccination these days is GAVI, in which the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, The World Bank, UNICEF and a number of other government and private organizations have teamed up to improve vaccination rates around the world.

Many deaths from disease are preventable. By some estimates, GAVI has saved more than 2,000,000 lives since 2000.

The United Nations plays a big role in all such projects because they have so much experience. There really is no replacesment.

Remember the embarrassing attempts the Pentagon made to feed the hungry in Iraq and Afghanistan? Remember the chaos in Iraq? The international community went through that phase of complete helplessness forty years ago. It never should have happpened in Iraq.