Yes. To Hell with the Iowa Farmers.

Hey...where'd all my bread, corn and pork products go?

why, does pandering take effort? 'cuz fred don't like effort.

From my understanding, ol' Freddie declines to do.. well, pretty much everything. He's such a lazy lackluster candidate, I'd assassinate him myself if he actually got elected. (I think he's really just dragging his feet because he doesn't wanna be president, but his wife wants to be first lady. So. Bad.)

JoJoTheIdiotMonkeyBoy: Yes. To Hell with the Iowa Farmers.

Hey...where'd all my bread, corn and pork products go?

Wow, your name is so appropriate.

He didn't say "To hell with them". He said that he doesn't think that millionares should be receiving subsidies to do their jobs. Which I would tend to agree with.

Oh, and by the way....

There are pig farms in other states. Quite a few in North Carolina. Those things stink to high heaven. Bleh.

JoJoTheIdiotMonkeyBoy: Yes. To Hell with the Iowa Farmers.

Hey...where'd all my bread, corn and pork products go?

Don't worry, we have all your food here in California.

Generation_D: IF YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FAMILY FARM, DON'T TALK WITH YOUR MOUTH FULL

I have no quarrel with the Family Farm.... OR Corporate Farms... or any kind of food production by free people engaging in voluntary production and commerce. I DO have a problem with the gov't subsidies, price supports, and quotas.

Free the sugar market!


"There are many farm handouts; but let's call them what they really are: a form of legalized theft. Essentially, a congressman tells his farm constituency, 'Vote for me. I'll use my office to take another American's money and give it to you.'" - economist Walter E Williams

"Tariffs that save jobs in the steel industry mean higher steel prices, which in turn means fewer sales of American steel products around the world and losses of far more jobs than are saved." - Thomas Sowell

That doesn't have anything to do with Fred's belief. It's because talking takes effort. This guy is lazier than hell.

Generation_D: IF YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FAMILY FARM, DON'T TALK WITH YOUR MOUTH FULL

I don't think it was the family farm he was talking about. If I remember right, a fair percentage of those subsidy checks can be traced to New York state. Last I checked, that's not a big time farm state. Manhattan if my memory serves.

/do your own research.

Family Farm, yes I remember those.

monster87: Generation_D: IF YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FAMILY FARM, DON'T TALK WITH YOUR MOUTH FULL

I don't think it was the family farm he was talking about. If I remember right, a fair percentage of those subsidy checks can be traced to New York state. Last I checked, that's not a big time farm state. Manhattan if my memory serves.

/do your own research.

Exactly. Wealth transfer is always sold as some means to help out 'the little guy' who deserves to be given other people's money for some undefined moral reason. But that is not what happens. Ag subsidies end up in the pockets of large corporations and wealthy investors. There is no way to reform this system. When you give away money, the guy with the best lawyers gets it.


"When under the pretext of fraternity, the legal code imposes mutual sacrifices on the citizens, human nature is not thereby abrogated. Everyone will then direct his efforts toward contributing little to, and taking much from, the common fund of sacrifices. Now, is it the most unfortunate who gains from this struggle? Certainly not, but rather the most influential and calculating." - Frédéric Bastiat

If you support farm subsidies just remember:
1. You make food more expensive than it would be for you (after all you do pay taxes, and it isn't as though the system of providing subsidies is 100% efficient)
2. You make unhealthy corn based food cheap- this means no complaining about how you cannot get real sugar coke, or how inhumane it is for cornfed beef to be sold
3. You ruin the economies of third world countries that would be importing food- if you are ok with the concept of other people dying because they were not lucky enough to be born American you should probably kill self

Well, at least the man is improving. Given his earlier on the ball statements about drilling in the Everglades and the death penalty ruling I would have expected something along the lines of:

I had no idea farm subsidies were an issue here in Iowa.

Corn subsidies ruin Pepsi. This is unforgivable.

Generation_D: IF YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FAMILY FARM, DON'T TALK WITH YOUR MOUTH FULL

Given that farm products are a commodity, why do I want to pay a premium to have it grown by a farm with an inefficient ownership structure? Does corporate corn somehow make me hate America?

I have to agree with Thompson on this one. Farm subsidies really are a form of corporate welfare. Where are the car salesman subsidies? The advertiser's subsidies? The carpenter's subsidies? Why just farms? Well, it's because they've pushed politicians into it, and politicians need to push back. If you're growing a product that people don't want, then stop.

LocalCynic: That doesn't have anything to do with Fred's belief. It's because talking takes effort. This guy is lazier than hell.

You know what? If it's a toss between a "live and let live" Republican (by and large) or any of the other authoritarian nutballs, I'd side with Thompson. If it has to be a Republican, I sincerely wish it to be him.

Tabatha Static:

"How do you take your scotch?"
"By the quart."

"Ask him to come in. Say that it's important and say I have to see him."
"Tell him we have sour cream."

/love that MST3K episode

Zarkin Frood: From my understanding, ol' Freddie declines to do.. well, pretty much everything. He's such a lazy lackluster candidate, I'd assassinate him myself if he actually got elected. (I think he's really just dragging his feet because he doesn't wanna be president, but his wife wants to be first lady. So. Bad.)

-A president who doesn't feel compelled to spend the majority of his time harping about worthless social issues and scheming up numerous ways to blow tax money is fine by me. Fred can hang out and get plastered on a daily basis for all I care, as long as he'll be around whenever there's an actual crisis that requires his attention. Besides, I wouldn't mind seeing his wife on television for the next four years. Fred certainly did well for himself there.

LavenderWolf: Corn subsidies ruin Pepsi. This is unforgivable.

Corn subsidies ruin a lot of American food and drink with the toxin that is high fructose corn syrup.

This is the reason Thompson will never be president. Honest people don't make for good politicians.

AKD: Have you heard a question that has surprised you throughout your campaign? Something you really wish - or perhaps a question you wish the media would ask you, but they just are not asking you that question. There is one question that is inside of you and you really want to talk about it.

FT: I wouldn't put it quite like that but I'll tell you what comes to mind if you won't require me to answer it because it would probably take five minutes and I'm getting all kinds of signals here. America's role in the 21st century. Where are we going? What are our goals? What role do we play in relationship to our friends and our foes? How do we see that going? What are the things we're going to have to do diplomatically, militarily, domestically in order to secure our country now and to preserve us for the future. The trouble with things like that, it's certainly not the big questions. There's hardly a forum, they're not television questions at all. And they're almost not media questions unless you're writing a magazine article, I suppose. And it's probably the most fundamental issue we have to deal with. And it's not just the question, I think the process should involve an opportunity for all the candidates, anybody who aspires to be president, get them together, preferably together sitting around a small table and have everybody expound on that. Have them discuss that. Have them probe each other as to the depth of their understanding and knowledge of the kind of world we live in. it hasn't happened. It won't happen. That's the nature of campaigning for the highest office in the nation. I'm not sure what the solution is, but it's a lacking in our system that could stand a lot of improvement. Thank you very much.

from the same interview that the non pandering quote came from
Link (new window)

I like that. I wish we could be a lot of the top politicos to do that.

...could have a lot...

spleef420: This is the reason Thompson will never be president. Honest people don't make for good politicians.

Jimmy Carter could've told you that. Then again, Bush II has shown us the polar opposite.

Zarkin Frood: From my understanding, ol' Freddie declines to do.. well, pretty much everything. He's such a lazy lackluster candidate, I'd assassinate him myself if he actually got elected. (I think he's really just dragging his feet because he doesn't wanna be president, but his wife wants to be first lady. So. Bad.)

Dude, be careful what you say, even though we assume you are kidding. Do you want to get a visit from the Secret Service?

You're the jerk... jerk: this means no complaining about how you cannot get real sugar coke

Sugar subsidies/tariffs are a big part of this equation too. It's not just that HFCS is artificially cheap, it's that sugar is artificially expensive too. But the price of corn will catch up with sugar once this ethanol nonsense is in full swing.

Zarkin Frood: Have fun during your upcoming visit with the guys in the dark sunglasses who talk into their sleeves.

Farm subsidies are a mixed bag. The problem with farming is the cyclical nature of production. You never know how good or bad a particular crop cycle will turn out. Consequently, the government (as we the eating public, in this case) subsidize farmers ehlp them through the unpredictable nature of farming.

That is part of the theory of farm subsidies. As always, the consequences of policies are often a mixed bag. Are we better off for farm subsidies, on balance? Probably.

I'm in New Zealand. Our biggest industry is agriculture, we're a first-world nation with first-world wages, regulations and compliance costs.

We abolished farming subsidies in the 1980s.

And business is booming. Our farmers - especially dairy - are making more money than ever. These aren't huge, corporate stations - although many are in cooperatives. Most of them are run by families and they're prospering - even though they have the huge hurdle of being remote from international markets.

Farming is a business, not a lifestyle. There is no need for subsidies and if you can't farm without subsidies, maybe you shouldn't be in the business in the first place.

I'm curious, do lettuce farmers get subsidies? Because they formed a cartel and get to charge whatever they want to charge.

Oh, and THAT'S why Iowa smells so bad, then? Pig farms?

I have no problem with farmers, but f*ck HFCS and corn-based ethanol. There are plenty of crops that can be grown here that would produce ethanol more efficiently, but the ridiculous corn lobby keeps pushing their crap.

monster87: If I remember right, a fair percentage of those subsidy checks can be traced to New York state. Last I checked, that's not a big time farm state.

I used to live in upstate NY. Many of my neighbors were farmers. It can get pretty rural up there. I hear they have Amish now.

first-world ag subsidies fly in the face of basic economics and comparative advantage and keep poor third world countries poor.

end them. sure, it may suck for some states and european nations and mean the end of the family farm, but it's just delaying the inevitable and actually hurting us by not giving poor countries a chance to develop exports and make themselves more prosperous and potential markets for our goods

Bonanza Jellybean: I used to live in upstate NY. Many of my neighbors were farmers. It can get pretty rural up there. I hear they have Amish now.

Yeah, there definitely is a lot of farming upstate, but a lot of the subsidy checks were going to people in Manhattan.

Paedophile_Deluxe: I have no problem with farmers, but f*ck HFCS and corn-based ethanol. There are plenty of crops that can be grown here that would produce ethanol more efficiently, but the ridiculous corn lobby keeps pushing their crap.

Sugarcane is better, but it doesn't grow too well in the US. Switch-grass is fantastic as well and it will grow everywhere. The best crop of all though, is actually a type of algae or kelp.

albo: first-world ag subsidies fly in the face of basic economics and comparative advantage and keep poor third world countries poor.

QFT. I've met Canadian farmers (who get less subsidies than Americans and Europeans) who are losing their farms, and my heart goes out to them because their kids are all moving away to the city. I've also been to Africa and met farmers who can't get a fair price for their goods, and their kids are dying in front their parents eyes. Subsidies are a cheap political trick that do serious harm to the people who can least afford it.

JoJoTheIdiotMonkeyBoy: Yes. To Hell with the Iowa Farmers.

Hey...where'd all my bread, corn and pork products go?

Ending farm subsidies wouldn't effect the food supply. Well... we'd have more of the things that farmers are paid not to grow, at cheaper prices. And taxes could be lowered. Yeah, lower taxes and more plentiful, cheaper food would be bad for America.

Over 35 responses into a thread about an Instapundit link and nobody has called Glenn Reynolds a neocon Bush apologist yet? You people are slipping.

Generation_D: IF YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FAMILY FARM, DON'T TALK WITH YOUR MOUTH FULL

If family farms can't compete in a free market, then they should go bankrupt. Move to the city and get a job. Someone who can work the land at a profit will buy it. The food supply won't be affected.

I guess he's really hoping South Carolina comes through for him, cause he's not campaigning in NH, and he just lost Iowa.

monster87: ...those subsidy checks can be traced to New York state. Last I checked, that's not a big time farm state.

Then maybe it's time you checked again. New York ranks:

Third among all states in dairy production.
Second among all states in apple production.
Third among all states in grape production.
Fourth among all states in fresh corn production.
Fifth among all states in processed corn production.
Fourth among all states in pear production.
Fifth among all states in cherry production.
Third among all states in maple syrup production.
Sixth among all states in overall fresh vegetable production.
Seventh among all states in overall processed vegetable production.
First among all states in cabbage production (but we're not proud of that)

To put this in perspective, New York ranks 27th among all states in size.

Dear Iowa


Enough with the corn. We get it already.

monster87: Generation_D: IF YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FAMILY FARM, DON'T TALK WITH YOUR MOUTH FULL

I don't think it was the family farm he was talking about. If I remember right, a fair percentage of those subsidy checks can be traced to New York state. Last I checked, that's not a big time farm state.

That's a fail right there. New York State is the second largest dairy producing state, right after Wisconsin.

The biggest MacIntosh apple orchard in the World is in NYS.

There is plenty of agriculture in NYS. It's all over the place once you go North of Yonkers:

New York is a major agricultural producer, ranking among the top five states for agricultural products including dairy, apples, cherries, cabbage, potatoes, onions, maple syrup and many others. The state is the largest producer of cabbage in the U.S. The state has about a quarter of its land in farms and produced US$3.4 billion in agricultural products in 2001.


Manhattan if my memory serves.

Yes, those checks were going to NYC addresses (please don't confuse NYC with NYS - Two separate entities). However, it isn't inconceivable that someone who owns a rather large farm or groups of farm might also have an apartment in Manhattan (though Lord knows why). It bears some investigation, but don't make assumptions. I actually know a guy who has a custom stone cutting/tile/marble business in NYC, and he owns a farm in Washington county. It's not a working farm, but if he wanted to it could be with minimal effort (ie., hiring someone to work it).

If I were in charge I'd cut the farm subsidies in half by not giving them to billionaires. Then I'd cut them in half again by not giving them to millionaires. Or their corporate front companies. The old 80%-20% rule, whereby the top 20% get 80% of the dough, doesn't do this scam justice.

The real "farm families" are getting less than $10,000 a year--way less the last I heard--outside of four or five states (of which Iowa is one) we're talking chicken feed. And there are fewer of them each year--more Americans are transexuals than farmers. The same is true in Canada, Australia and the UK: average age of a Cdn farmer--52, making about $35,000 a year. Average acreage--somewhere around 600-1,000. Average subsidy--dick all. That's why these guys have three jobs. Only rich farmers can live solely on farm income.

ALL the money goes to a handful of Agro-Industrial giants pretending to be "farmers". If you own 10,000,000 acres you're not a farmer. You're a Duke. Possibly literally, given the vast amount of British money that poured into American, Australian and Canadian agriculture in the XIXth century.

If it were possible to trace land ownership in America without going to several thousand county land registries you'd be aware that like the UK, 10,000 families control 80% of the land. Pretty nearly all descendants of the original 10,000 families that controlled the land at the time of the Domesday Book. Only the rich and corporations make money farming. The rest subsist or desist.

In my native New Brunswick. the Irvings own 1.7 million acres outright and control the rest by owning the Government (regardless of who is in office) and the Liberal Party, as well as all the English language daily newspapers and one of the two television stations. They own similar acreages in Nova Scotia, Maine, and Quebec, but less in PEI, which has draconian "foreign" ownership laws (think: Nantucket), and gas stations as far as Connecticut and Montreal. Guess who the Liberal NB Government is handing vast tracts of woodlot over to? Even corporate giants can't compete against that kind of concentrated power. One of several reasons the mills are being shut down by companies from Finland, the rest of Canada, and the US.

You'd find similar fortunes in nearly every state and province in North America. Forestry is just as concentrated as agriculture if not more so. And subsidized in varous ways, but everywhere the same.

Most Americans don't know how their country works at all or else they would burn the State Capitals and march on to Washington. It always makes me laugh up my sleave when I hear Americans badmouthing Old World Aristocracy and Royalty. The UK has one Royal Family. You have 50,000.

All of your Constitution Signers were rich (mostly landed) Whigs (or crypto-Tories) except one. One was a mere farmer. Guess which one? You don't know his name, I'll bet.

Oh, well. At least cheap filler is plentiful. Altthough wheat hit a record $10 a bushel thanks to global warming and ethanol production, while corn has been causing riots in Mexico, as it is turned directly into gasohol to move your obese populace around rather than tortilla flour for the masses who make your lead-filled candies and your lead-painted shlock (the small percentage that isn't from China, India or Indonesia).

Lot's of luck on that American Revolution thing. The first one obviously was a total sham by what Horace Walpole called the Needy-Greedies. A Greek politician, called upon to defend the Tyrants, pointed out that you were better off with the fat leeches full of your blood than with a new lot of hungry leeches.

If he had been around in the 1770s, you'd all be speaking English today.

But I digress.

Barely.

It was all about that rich, black, Indian Territory loam in the first place. If there's no oil, land and water are worth fighting over until you get a cheap government-subsidized monopoly of both.

It's the same here, the same there, the same everywhere, and at all times since 9000 B.C. or thereabouts--possibly a few millenia earlier in small bits of South West Asia.

Generation_D: IF YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FAMILY FARM, DON'T TALK WITH YOUR MOUTH FULL

I doubt that much in my kitchen originated from a family farm.

DrGunsforHands: The best crop of all though, is actually a type of algae or kelp.

Iowa doesn't grow kelp, but it is first in line for primary elections. Therefore, corn is where we get ethanol

/shrug

This is what'll happen...

1) Eliminate farm subsidies
2) Food prices increase
3) Our taxes will not decrease, they never do
4) Money saved in the federal budget will be spent elsewhere, saving us from some tax increase down the road

So, it's a basically a wash longterm. But, morally, Im on board.

His specialty was alfalfa, and he made a good thing out of not growing any. The government paid him well for every bushel of alfalfa he did not grow. The more alfalfa he did not grow, the more money the government gave him, and he spent every penny he didn't earn on new land to increase the amount of alfalfa he did not produce. Major Major's father worked without rest at not growing alfalfa. On long winter evenings he remained indoors and did not mend harness, and he sprang out of bed at the crack of noon every day just to make certain that the chores would not be done. He invested in land wisely and soon was not growing more alfalfa than any other man in the county.

heh Thrag, You beat me to it.

Dyanx: 1) Eliminate farm subsidies
2) Food prices increasedecrease
3) Our taxes will not decrease, they never do
4) Money saved in the federal budget will be spent elsewhere, saving us from some tax increase down the road

FTFY.