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(Ynet) Obvious Emergency Israeli delegation dispatched to US to argue that Iran still pursuing bomb, has super-duper top secret information that no one can see as proof, and dodgy documents where "q's" are replaced with "n's"   (ynetnews.com) divider line 73
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Sun God [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 11:25:24 AM  
A little bit of this, a little bit of that.
A pot, a pan, a broom, a hat.

Someone should have set a match to this place years ago.
A bench, a tree.
So, what's a stove? Or a house?
People who pass through Anatevka don't even know they've been here.
A stick of wood. A piece of cloth.

What do we leave? Nothing much.
Only Anatevka.

Anatevka, Anatevka.
Underfed, overworked Anatevka.
Where else could Sabbath be so sweet?
Anatevka, Anatevka.
Intimate, obstinate Anatevka,
Where I know everyone I meet.

Soon I'll be a stranger in a strange new place,
Searching for an old familiar face
>From Anatevka.

I belong in Anatevka,
Tumble-down, work-a-day Anatevka.
Dear little village, little town of mine

 
kronicfeld [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 11:58:02 AM  
Afternoon_Delight: i1.tinypic.com

As usual, the writer forgot to tell a joke.

 
Party Boy [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 12:13:59 PM  
U.S. report on Iran forces Israel to alter strategy
After the shock of last week's U.S. intelligence estimate that found that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003, Israel is reshaping its Iran strategy.

Israel essentially is arguing that the U.S. assessment is dangerously misleading and that Tehran is as determined as ever to acquire nuclear weapons. The Israeli dilemma is how to prove Iran is cheating without being accused of trying to push the United States into war. That is why the official strategy is to work quietly behind the scenes.

Israel's top intelligence agencies all believe Iran is still at full throttle to produce a nuclear bomb and will be capable of doing so by 2009 or 2010.

The new Israeli strategy is based on four main elements:

• Actively pushing for stiffer international sanctions on Iran, despite the U.S. report.

• Working quietly behind the scenes to convince others through Israel's own intelligence material that Iran is intent on producing nuclear weapons.

• Refraining from arguing with the U.S. assessment in public, lest Israel be seen to be trying to push the United States into military action against Iran.

• Israel keeping open its own military options.

The National Intelligence Estimate's report is likely to affect more than Israel's strategy on Iran. Although they won't say so openly, Israeli officials feel a deep sense of abandonment by the United States in the face of this existential threat to the Jewish state. This sentiment could have implications for the Israeli-Palestinian peace process and in the Israeli domestic political arena.

The sense of abandonment places a heavy burden on Israeli decision makers. Now that Israel is on its own, the question of what to do about an Iran on the verge of nuclear capability could be one of the biggest decisions in the history of the state.

The emerging policy is the result of close consultations among Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni. In a Cabinet meeting Sunday, Olmert stressed that Israel would work to "expose Iran's clandestine operations."

Barak earlier had advised the prime minister not to get into a public spat with the United States over its assessment of Iran's nuclear program but rather promoted the behind-the-scenes effort.

Livni is determined to ensure that the international alliance for sanctions against Iran does not crumble in the face of the report. Last week, she briefed Israeli ambassadors worldwide, urging them to stress that even if taken at face value, the U.S. report shows that Iran can be pressured and that sanctions work.

Later, in a meeting with NATO foreign ministers in Brussels, Livni secured promises from several of her European counterparts that they would go ahead with sanctions of their own if Russia or China veto a new sanctions package in the U.N. Security Council.

Barak has hinted that Israel will keep all its options on the table, declaring, "It is our responsibility to ensure that the right steps are taken against the Iranian regime. Words don't stop missiles."

Avigdor Lieberman, Israeli minister of strategic affairs, said it doesn't matter whether the Iranians have a secret military program. He argues that once the Iranians have sufficient quantities of enriched uranium -- which they continue to produce openly, ostensibly for civilian purposes -- they could manufacture a bomb in a matter of months. Then, Lieberman said, "for them to go nuclear or not is simply a political decision."

In questioning the U.S. intelligence assessment, Israeli analysts point to three indisputable facts: In defiance of the international community, Iran continues to enrich uranium; Iran has an advanced missile program that it continues to develop, and it could quickly reactivate its military program -- assuming it has been stopped -- to produce a bomb within a relatively short time span.

"They can stop on the edge of the project to weaponize and decide to proceed at any time," former Mossad chief Ephraim Halevy said.

The bottom line in the U.S. assessment is that the Iranians, concerned by the U.S. invasion of Iraq, suspended their nuclear weapons program in 2003.

The Israeli counterassessment is that Tehran easily could have shifted its nuclear program underground without being detected, and even if they didn't, it doesn't matter much because the transition from an advanced civilian nuclear program to weaponization is relatively simple and brief.

The Israelis say that the Jewish state, which is within range of Iranian missiles, cannot afford to take as sanguine a view of the potential threat as the Americans, who are not within range of Iran's missiles.

Israeli analysts agree that right or wrong, the U.S. intelligence estimate will prove a seminal event that reduces to zero the possibility of a U.S. military strike against Iran.

Some see the assessment as an attempt to tie the hands of an activist U.S. president; others see it as providing support to a president looking for a way to back down from an increasingly unpopular military option against Iran.

Either way, the American dial-down on Iran could affect Israeli-Palestinian peacemaking. If Israel can no longer count on the United States when facing major security threats, it will be less inclined to take chances for peace with Palestinians, pundits say.

Moreover, the scenario that would have had the United States deal with Iran in return for Israeli concessions to the Palestinians has been blown out of the water.

The new situation could have implications for domestic politics, too. If it becomes clear that Iran does not intend to go nuclear, Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu, who has built a career around the Iranian threat, could be in trouble. Conversely, if Israel seems alone in the battle against a nuclear Iran, Netanyahu could become the man of the hour.

Does Israel have a genuine military option against Iran?

Some Israeli and foreign experts are skeptical, given the large number of widely dispersed and well-fortified nuclear targets in Iran. Moreover, Iran would be able to retaliate with missiles fired from its own territory, as well as by its proxies in Syria, Lebanon and Gaza. The Islamic republic also could unleash terrorist attacks on Israeli and Jewish targets abroad.

Nevertheless, Israel has built a highly sophisticated elite strike force capable of hitting a wide range of Iranian targets. The Israeli estimate is that it could put the Iranian program back several years. Israel, however, probably would need U.S. approval for any such strike.

With U.S. forces active nearby, the Israeli air force would find it extremely difficult to operate over Iran without first receiving American "friend-or-foe" flight codes for the airspace over Saudi Arabia and Iraq. These codes were withheld from Israel during the 1991 Gulf War; a clash over the codes in the Iranian context would be far more serious. It could mean back to square one.

Even though Israel rejects the new U.S. reading of Iranian intentions, it remains dependent on U.S. cooperation for any future operation concerning Iran.

 
Shaggy_C 2007-12-16 12:18:48 PM  
Good point Afternoon_Delight; we're inclined and dare I say - programmed - to only accept facts that fit into our preconceived worldview. The Dems will do and say anything to avoid a war; the neocons will do anything to have one. Thankfully, the American public does not have the stomach to fight 3 wars at once.

 
Sun God [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 12:20:20 PM  
You shouldn't do that small text thing. It gives people of all faiths migraines.

 
Shaggy_C 2007-12-16 12:20:52 PM  
Party Boy: • Actively pushing for stiffer international sanctions on Iran, despite the U.S. report.

• Working quietly behind the scenes to convince others through Israel's own intelligence material that Iran is intent on producing nuclear weapons.

• Refraining from arguing with the U.S. assessment in public, lest Israel be seen to be trying to push the United States into military action against Iran.

• Israel keeping open its own military options.



Replace the name 'Israel' with Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, and you see how horrendous the blatant hypocrisy is in terms of our Middle East policy.

 
Party Boy [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 12:30:03 PM  
Shaggy_C: =Replace the name 'Israel' with Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, and you see how horrendous the blatant hypocrisy is in terms of our Middle East policy.

I dont get it. Elaborate.

 
Party Boy [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 12:35:34 PM  
Sun God: You shouldn't do that small text thing. It gives people of all faiths migraines.

If I dont do the small text, people get mad that theres a "wall of text"

hit control (+) to make it bigger

 
torch [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 12:46:37 PM  
The Mossad must have naked pics of Bush and Cheny with underage boys. For that matter they must do it with every administration because the US govt is so hell-bent to do whatever the Israelis want.

 
flaEsq [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 12:48:33 PM  
Woolsey was on the tube Friday going on about how now's the time to send in the flyboys. I assume it's going to happen. I don't think everyone has the same motivation for wanting to do it. Or that it's going to accomplish anything positive.

Sun God: Anatevka,

A terribly terribly sad song IIRC. I suppose it's appropriate :(

 
Mordant [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 12:51:11 PM  
torch: the US govt is so hell-bent to do whatever the Israelis want.

At least Israel lets us give them plenty of money for the privilege of serving them.

 
Party Boy [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 12:53:40 PM  
flaEsq: Woolsey was on the tube

speaking of

Neocons Attack the NIE, Yet Again

 
flaEsq [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 01:06:55 PM  
Party Boy: Neocons Attack the NIE, Yet Again

Donning my tin foil cap: Even though Gates is the new American Christ and credited with forcing the release (and replacing Rice as chief diplomat) I have a sinking feeling the public portion of the NIE was a red herring and we'll soon enough be treated with leaks that'll reignite the persians with nukes thing

 
Party Boy [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 01:09:14 PM  
flaEsq: Party Boy: Neocons Attack the NIE, Yet Again

Donning my tin foil cap: Even though Gates is the new American Christ and credited with forcing the release (and replacing Rice as chief diplomat) I have a sinking feeling the public portion of the NIE was a red herring and we'll soon enough be treated with leaks that'll reignite the persians with nukes thing


There's plenty "what if's" floating around, and you know what? Who knows.
I'm just watching what unfolds.

 
Party Boy [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 01:19:43 PM  
Well, I'm going to wash the car. While I wait for Shaggy_C to elaborate, I guess ill add something.

[1973 Yom Kippur War] Thus started the subtle, opaque use of the Israeli bomb to ensure that the United States kept its pledge to maintain Israel's conventional weapons edge over its foes.[65] There is significant anecdotal evidence that Henry Kissinger told President of Egypt, Anwar Sadat, that the reason for the U.S. airlift was that the Israelis were close to "going nuclear."[66][link]

Kissinger in 1969: Israelis most likely to use nukes

[2002] In particular, observers pointed to heightened American fears of an Israeli retaliation to an Iraqi attack provoking a regional escalation - especially at a time when the U.S. appears to be unexpectedly isolated in its confrontation with Baghdad. [link]

[2007] US fears Israeli strike against Iran over latestnooclear claim


/washing the car

 
Kome [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 01:50:59 PM  
Afternoon_Delight: The dems will do and say anything to bring about our defeat

And yet it's the republicans who are sending our nation's children off to die. Hm... I think you may need to re-evaluate your thesis.

 
whiskeyinthejar [recently expired TotalFark] 2007-12-16 02:16:43 PM  
If Israel wants a war with Iran, let them go ahead and fight it, and let them deal with the consequences. The United States owes them nothing. We're not a mercenary state for sale to the highest bidder, and it's time we start basing our foreign policy on what's good for us, not what's good for Israel.

 
Kome [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 02:19:11 PM  
Afternoon_Delight

Riiight. Because it's the democrats who've been lieing to us and changing the reason about why we went into Iraq. Oh wait...

The democrats are stupid, I acknowledge that, but the republicans are evil and that needs to be remembered as well.

 
Phil Moskowitz 2007-12-16 02:19:33 PM  
They saw what America would condone when radicalized after 9/11 and they LOVED it. It was like being let off the leash. Now they're worried they won't get all of their enemies dealt with before the US comes out of its barbaric psychosis.

There is a sell by date on this new fascism, and they see that. So it's chop chop, we have realpolitiking to do.

 
Party Boy [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 02:38:51 PM  
Kome: Afternoon_Delight

Riiight. Because it's the democrats who've been...

He's a troll, and when it comes between the US or Israel, he chooses like this

Just weeks after the Mid East peace talks, Palestinians are furious as Israel continues to expand on occupied land. US, UN have already mobilized against Israel with a salvo of soft blows to the wrist and sternly worded documents (53)

Afternoon_Delight
FTFA: Israel says it annexed the area in 1967 and so does not regard it as occupied.


Good enough for me.


So, when the Republican Secretary of State criticizes Israel
Rice: E1 building 'contravenes US policy'

• Among the new sites to be settled is the so-called E1 area between the city of Maaleh Adumim and Jerusalem, which the Israeli government has expressed its intention of retaining in any future arrangement.

and

Israeli minister rebuffs Rice on settlement homes
following a republican tradition on the subject
(1990) Israel Retracts Pledge to U.S On East Jerusalem Housing

"My position is that the foreign policy of the United States says we do not believe there should be new settlements in the West Bank or in East Jerusalem. And I will conduct that policy as if it's firm, which it is, and I will be shaped in whatever decisions we make to see whether people can comply with that policy. And that's our strongly held view."

President George H.W. Bush, press conference -March 3, 1990

"Substantial resettlement of the Israeli civilian population in occupied territories, including East Jerusalem, is illegal under the convention and cannot be considered to have prejudged the outcome of future negotiations between the parties on the locations of the borders of states by the Middle East. Indeed, the presence of these settlements is seen by my government as an obstacle to the success of the negotiations for a just and final peace between Israel and its neighbors." William Scranton, US Ambassador to the United Nations, UN Security Council -- March 23, 1976

Afternoon_Delight Chooses a side thats not Republican.

 
chu2dogg 2007-12-16 02:43:50 PM  
Mordant At least Israel lets us give them plenty of money for the privilege of serving them.

At least Israel doesn't send us suicide bombers after we give them money.

 
Party Boy [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 02:51:19 PM  
Afternoon_Delight: Party Boy: Afternoon_Delight chooses a side thats not Republican.


And?


Ok then.

 
ilambiquated 2007-12-16 02:54:08 PM  
Shaggy_C: Good point Afternoon_Delight; we're inclined and dare I say - programmed - to only accept facts that fit into our preconceived worldview. The Dems will do and say anything to avoid a war; the neocons will do anything to have one. Thankfully, the American public does not have the stomach to fight 3 wars at once.

Except,

1) As you may recall, the CIA had no evidence that Iraq had a WMD program. The "slam dunk" was about how easy it was going to be to lie to the public about it
2) Weren't you ragging on Hillary Clinton in another thread for voting FOR allowing presidential dicretion on Iraq? Doesn't fit tody's rant too well.

 
Jon Snow [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 03:00:36 PM  
Afternoon_Delight: The dems will do and say anything to bring about our defeat, Israel's defeat and to make 100% that Iran has its atom bombs.

They are absolutely relentless in these aims


Ahahahahahahahahaha! Funniest post on Fark today.

 
LocalCynic 2007-12-16 03:13:27 PM  
img125.imageshack.us

 
mtman900 2007-12-16 03:26:56 PM  
Afternoon_Delight: Party Boy: Afternoon_Delight chooses a side thats not Republican.


And?


I think he's saying that you're choosing a side that's not American.

Which, if you're willing to side with Israeli interests over the American interests, that'd be a nice helping of treason

/However, going with human interests pretty much trumps all

 
mtman900 2007-12-16 03:27:59 PM  
Afternoon_Delight: Oh, and Jon Snow, I know how you have this bizarre need to 'win' in every single global warming and/or Israel thread but is it REALLY necessary to pose as party boy in order to present additional reams of 'evidence'?

Seriously, it's pretty obvious that you're both one and the same person. You don't do a very good job of concealing it. Wherever and whenever there's one of you, the other one magically appears - arguing in perfect synchronicity, using the same links, linking to the same old threads, etc.

It's pretty pitiful to watch...


roflcakes, Afternoon_In_Leather

 
Jon Snow [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 03:28:31 PM  
Afternoon_Delight: Oh, and Jon Snow, I know how you have this bizarre need to 'win' in every single global warming and/or Israel thread but is it REALLY necessary to pose as party boy in order to present additional reams of 'evidence'?

Seriously, it's pretty obvious that you're both one and the same person. You don't do a very good job of concealing it. Wherever and whenever there's one of you, the other one magically appears - arguing in perfect synchronicity, using the same links, linking to the same old threads, etc.

It's pretty pitiful to watch...


Ahahahahahahahahahaha! Okay, now that was funnier.

 
Kome [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 03:32:56 PM  
Afternoon_Delight: It's pretty pitiful to watch...

Said the guy with more alts than anyone else on Fark.

 
Glasgowsfinest [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 03:35:09 PM  
Afternoon_Delight: It's pretty pitiful to watch...

Wow. Hypocrisy runs deep in this one.

 
mtman900 2007-12-16 03:36:56 PM  
Afternoon_Delight: mtman900: if you're willing to side with Israeli interests over the American interests, that'd be a nice helping of treason


What about siding with UN interests over America's? Is that treason too?


You're right, I painted with too full a brush. It isn't treason to wish to help Israel, just like it isn't treason to wish to solve things diplomatically.

However, I'll disagree with you that Israel, as a political entity, is one which should be trusted over all other sources. We do share some common objectives, but a blind allegiance to them is a poor choice.

 
Persepolis 2007-12-16 03:40:14 PM  
The sad thing is that Afternoon_Delight,

upload.wikimedia.org

Seriously dude, go and get some sun or something.

 
Party Boy [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 03:44:35 PM  
Afternoon_Delight: Seriously, it's pretty obvious that you're both one and the same person.

You should try fresh air.

 
Onelith 2007-12-16 03:46:20 PM  
So either the US is stupid because we missed Iran's nuke programs, or Israel is stupid because they're trying to lie to us so we keep pushing.

Wow this is gonna end well.

 
drjekel_mrhyde 2007-12-16 03:51:51 PM  
Mordant: torch: the US govt is so hell-bent to do whatever the Israelis want.

At least Israel lets us give them plenty of money for the privilege of serving them.


I LOL'D

 
drjekel_mrhyde 2007-12-16 03:55:05 PM  
Note to IRAN:
Stick those 30,000 Iranian Jews in settlements around every nuke site and dare Israel to bomb them after all: that would be ANTI_SEMITIC on Israel

 
Comrade438 2007-12-16 03:55:39 PM  
Persepolis: Seriously dude, go and get some sun or something.

The sun is a harsh mistress...

 
Gunny Highway 2007-12-16 04:05:21 PM  
The basement, the Sun is not there

 
Phil Moskowitz 2007-12-16 04:07:26 PM  
Comrade438: Persepolis: Seriously dude, go and get some sun or something.

The sun is a harsh mistress...


Ted Heinlein?

 
PC LOAD LETTER [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 04:09:48 PM  
Afternoon_Delight: The dems will do and say anything to bring about our defeat,

Ok, I'll bite: what's "victory" look like? What's your plan to achieve that? What do you think will happen when we leave?

Israel's defeat and to make 100% that Iran has its atom bombs.

Israel getting "defeated" would mean that the US would let it get defeated. I didn't realize that all Jews were Republicans.

And which President has been in power since 2001 and has let the UN handle Iran while occasionally making strongly worded statements instead of getting involved in Iraq.

They are absolutely relentless in these aims, but they will lose - just like the jihadis who so desperately count on their continued support.

Please show your proof.

BTW, striking Iran from the air & sea won't create a 'third front'. It will all be one front, and it's going to happen...


You truly have a dizzying intellect.

 
PC LOAD LETTER [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 04:10:47 PM  
PC LOAD LETTER: involved in Iraq

Iran. Such an easy typo.

 
Aarontology [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 04:13:58 PM  
PC LOAD LETTER: PC LOAD LETTER: involved in Iraq

Iran. Such an easy typo.


At this point, I don't think it makes all that much of a difference.

 
SeismicJizzer 2007-12-16 04:16:29 PM  
Shaggy_C: Good point Afternoon_Delight; we're inclined and dare I say - programmed - to only accept facts that fit into our preconceived worldview. The Dems will do and say anything to avoid a war; the neocons will do anything to have one. Thankfully, the American public does not have the stomach to fight 3 wars at once.

Really? Where is the report that shows 16 of our intelligence offices were in agreement that Sadaam had WMD's? Sadly there are "Independents" dare I say - programmed- to believe that every dictator has WMD's.

/You are not even waiting for the war to end to change the facts.

 
The First 2007-12-16 04:16:30 PM  
So Bush starts a third war all because Israel is a giant pussy, what ya gonna do? The part of the government the Chinese don't own, then Jews own. We're all farked regardless of WHO goes into the WH next.

 
Riche [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 04:17:41 PM  
extras.mnginteractive.com

"Hello little girl. Let me show you my organ. My pipe organ."

 
Kome [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 04:19:43 PM  
Afternoon_Delight: Aarontology: I don't think it makes all that much of a difference.


Did it ever?


Wow. You're just a racist mother f*cker aren't you.

 
Shaggy_C 2007-12-16 04:26:30 PM  
SeismicJizzer: Sadly there are "Independents" dare I say - programmed- to believe that every dictator has WMD's.

/You are not even waiting for the war to end to change the facts.


What the hell are you talking about?

 
Shaggy_C 2007-12-16 04:28:52 PM  
Party Boy: Shaggy_C: =Replace the name 'Israel' with Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, and you see how horrendous the blatant hypocrisy is in terms of our Middle East policy.

I dont get it. Elaborate.


I mean, look at it this way:


The new Pakistani strategy is based on four main elements:

• Actively pushing for stiffer international sanctions on India, despite the U.S. report.

• Working quietly behind the scenes to convince others through Pakistan's own intelligence material that India is intent on producing chemical weapons.

• Refraining from arguing with the U.S. assessment in public, lest Pakistan be seen to be trying to push the United States into military action against India.

• Pakistan keeping open its own military options.


People would be up in arms if this were the story. But, it's Israel, so we don't worry our little heads about it.

 
SeismicJizzer 2007-12-16 04:29:04 PM  
FTFA:Israeli officials who have reviewed all known intelligence on Iran's nuclear activities have concluded that Iran did in fact suspend its atomic weapons development in 2003, after the US invaded Iraq, the Israeli security officials said. But Israel is convinced the Iranians set up a new production line whose details aren't known fully to Western intelligence agencies, they said.

So these assholes do not have any real intelligence but because they are ambitious, brown and Muslim, they are a threat?

Another fail from this article:
Israel considers the regime in Tehran to be its biggest threat because of its nuclear ambitions, its long-range missile program and repeated calls by its president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, to wipe Israel off the map.
Link (new window)

I have an idea why don't these pussies fight their own war and leave us out if it. I am sick and tired of my taxes used to pay for their settelments.

 
cameroncrazy1984 [TotalFark] 2007-12-16 04:37:50 PM  
SeismicJizzer: I have an idea why don't these pussies fight their own war and leave us out if it. I am sick and tired of my taxes used to pay for their settelments.

Newsletter. Subscribe me to it.

 
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