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(The Carpetbagger Report) Ironic "It may be an exaggeration to say conservatives are having a major-league freak-out over the prospects of Mike Huckabee winning the Republican Party's presidential nomination, but only slightly"   (thecarpetbaggerreport.com) divider line 120
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yem_tex 2007-12-15 08:32:53 PM  
Wow, if the bumpkins help nominate this rube and run him VS Obama it's going to be a GOP bloodbath.

 
wowzer97pooh 2007-12-15 08:33:27 PM  
Meanwhile, the Democratic Party are so giddy at the prospect of Huckabee being nominated, they actually are going to home to have sex with their spouses instead of hiring hookers.

 
yem_tex 2007-12-15 08:34:28 PM  
wowzer97pooh: Meanwhile, the Democratic Party are so giddy at the prospect of Huckabee being nominated, they actually are going to home to have sex with their spouses instead of hiring hookers.

Yeah, Vitter style!

 
worlddan 2007-12-15 08:39:29 PM  
yem_tex: Wow, if the bumpkins help nominate this rube and run him VS Obama it's going to be a GOP bloodbath.

WOW. Look at how the GOP establishment can spin things their way. As a independent, Huckabee is the ONLY Republican candidate I can take seriously. Ron Paul would be fun, but he's not serious.

Huckabee would be devestating against either Clinton or Obama because he'd cause many independents to take a second or third look. Right now, both parties need the independents in order to win in the general election and Huckabee is the most appealing of the bunch.

 
keithgabryelski [TotalFark] 2007-12-15 08:39:35 PM  
wowzer97pooh: Meanwhile, the Democratic Party are so giddy at the prospect of Huckabee being nominated, they actually are going to home to have sex with their spouses instead of hiring hookers.

Man you went there pretty quickly -- do you want to talk about anything?

 
Gnorb 2007-12-15 08:42:09 PM  
Huckabee = Dubbya Part II

 
Shaggy_C 2007-12-15 08:42:14 PM  
Huckabee supports the Fair Tax. All of the so-called 'libertarians' will once again grit their teeth and vote for this guy even though he's a fundie. They did it in 2000; they did in 2004. After Ron Paul loses the Republican primary, I think we'll see an upsurge in support for the guy.

 
CossackMossis 2007-12-15 08:43:02 PM  
keithgabryelski: wowzer97pooh: Meanwhile, the Democratic Party are so giddy at the prospect of Huckabee being nominated, they actually are going to home to have sex with their spouses instead of hiring hookers.

Man you went there pretty quickly -- do you want to talk about anything?


"Whoa, whoa.

Sex with women? Really? You wanna go THERE?

Jeez. Democrats."

 
wowzer97pooh 2007-12-15 08:43:35 PM  
keithgabryelski: wowzer97pooh: Meanwhile, the Democratic Party are so giddy at the prospect of Huckabee being nominated, they actually are going to home to have sex with their spouses instead of hiring hookers.

Man you went there pretty quickly -- do you want to talk about anything?


I'm just jealous. I have to spend my money on groceries and gas. Hookers are a luxury I can't afford.

 
yem_tex 2007-12-15 08:44:37 PM  
worlddan: WOW. Look at how the GOP establishment can spin things their way. As a independent, Huckabee is the ONLY Republican candidate I can take seriously. Ron Paul would be fun, but he's not serious.

Most independents will run screaming from the prospect of this theocrat in the White House.

 
keithgabryelski [TotalFark] 2007-12-15 08:47:37 PM  
wowzer97pooh: I'm just jealous. I have to spend my money on groceries and gas. Hookers are a luxury I can't afford.

The Republicans think Democrats eat vegetarian food because of some sort of moral imperative.

Truth is, it's cheaper than steak -- we're saving up.

 
Jubeebee 2007-12-15 08:49:06 PM  
worlddan: yem_tex: Wow, if the bumpkins help nominate this rube and run him VS Obama it's going to be a GOP bloodbath.

WOW. Look at how the GOP establishment can spin things their way. As a independent, Huckabee is the ONLY Republican candidate I can take seriously. Ron Paul would be fun, but he's not serious.

Huckabee would be devestating against either Clinton or Obama because he'd cause many independents to take a second or third look. Right now, both parties need the independents in order to win in the general election and Huckabee is the most appealing of the bunch.


Um, what?

Huckabee is a Young-Earther, is flagrantly bigoted, and is lax on illegal immigration. If you're looking to win over moderate independents, you want to be the opposite of those things.

Are you sure you're not an evangelical, worlddan?

 
theigorway 2007-12-15 08:50:12 PM  
Go Huckabee!


I think McCain is the only sane one in the entire bunch...

 
Jubeebee 2007-12-15 08:50:31 PM  
keithgabryelski: wowzer97pooh: I'm just jealous. I have to spend my money on groceries and gas. Hookers are a luxury I can't afford.

The Republicans think Democrats eat vegetarian food because of some sort of moral imperative.

Truth is, it's cheaper than steak -- we're saving up.


Beans and rice make a perfectly noble meal!

 
SeismicJizzer 2007-12-15 08:58:50 PM  
I have no sympathy for them. What did they expect? They catered and coddled the religious nuts for votes and thought they would just stand around in the background while the Wall Street republicans governed. Barry Goldwater warned them about this but they didn't take heed. They deserve everything they get.

/In all honesty none of the republican candidates has a chance

 
underbridge 2007-12-15 08:59:47 PM  
Given that A) I am an independent and B) only severely retarded people would support Huckabee, I take offense at worlddan's post which indirectly calls me a retard.

Seriously, Huckabee pulling in independents? Are you high? Life-long republicans are talking about voting democrat if that insane theocrat gets the nomination.

He appeals to the american taliban and no one else.

 
LocalCynic 2007-12-15 09:00:18 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: Huck has no chance once conservatives learn his record. He's liberal on immigration, taxation, what is and what isn't torture, national security and the war on terrorism. He pardoned a lot of convicts in jail and one of them went out and raped/murdered some girl.

In other words, he doesn't gleefully think torture and killing people is fun. He also was willing to pay for schools and roads instead of shutting down the school system and encouraging people to drive on crushed gravel like Ayn Rand would like them to. What a LIBERAL!

 
Craptastic 2007-12-15 09:00:51 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: Huck has no chance once conservatives learn his record. He's liberal on immigration, taxation, what is and what isn't torture, national security and the war on terrorism. He pardoned a lot of convicts in jail and one of them went out and raped/murdered some girl. That alone should sink him...it's Willie Horton all over. He also took a lot of gifts when he was a govenor of Arkansas just like Bill Clinton did as president....the "religious right" liberals hate so much typically don't vote for people who have a problem with ethics. Huckabee is basically the second coming of Jimmmy Carter except he actually opposes abortion (like most Christians).

I will say that I don't think Huck would be an easy out for Hillary or any Democrat. He's a better debater than any of them and a lot of democrats could be happy with him, and Republicans will vote for Huck over Hillary any day. :)


I thought you died, sock-puppet.

 
Desterion 2007-12-15 09:01:14 PM  
I started to read the article, then saw the guy had the daily kos as one of his "reccomended" blogs.

 
LocalCynic 2007-12-15 09:02:19 PM  
underbridge: Seriously, Huckabee pulling in independents? Are you high? Life-long republicans are talking about voting democrat if that insane theocrat gets the nomination.

A lot of moderates would vote for the guy. His religious views might be pretty extreme, but policywise, he was a fairly moderate governor. The people who think that we need to go house-to-house, and engage in Anne Frank style immigration checks probably won't vote for him, but other than that, he has a decent shot.

 
xria 2007-12-15 09:07:46 PM  
worlddan

Huckabee would be devestating against either Clinton or Obama because he'd cause many independents to take a second or third look.

You mean in a jaw dropping, WTF are the Republicans thinking sense, yes?

Huckabee winning the primary would seem to be tantamount to the republicans accepting they want a democratic president next term to get tarnished with the ugly exit from Iraq.

 
Jubeebee 2007-12-15 09:10:38 PM  
LocalCynic: underbridge: Seriously, Huckabee pulling in independents? Are you high? Life-long republicans are talking about voting democrat if that insane theocrat gets the nomination.

A lot of moderates would vote for the guy. His religious views might be pretty extreme, but policywise, he was a fairly moderate governor. The people who think that we need to go house-to-house, and engage in Anne Frank style immigration checks probably won't vote for him, but other than that, he has a decent shot.


But it's cool that he wants to go house to house to make sure people aren't taking it in the butt, right?

The evangelical bloc might be enough to win Huckabee the GOP primary, but if the Dems nominate anyone but Clinton, he'd get destroyed in the general election when the paleocons stay home. Huckabee might even be enough to split the GOP.

He won't pull enough independents to matter. His support is from the extreme right; no one else really wants to see a theocracy.

 
yem_tex 2007-12-15 09:13:04 PM  
However, if Clinton gets the nom and Guliani runs Huck as his VP, the GOP could pull this off.

 
LocalCynic 2007-12-15 09:13:30 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: Liberals think water boarding and sleep deprivation are forms of torture equivalent to cutting off limbs and piercing the testicles of a terrorist.

Actually, King James I of England thinks that waterboarding is WORSE than torture that involves permanent physical injury. That's King James as in the King James Bible. You know, that "liberal" who had Guy Fawkes tortured and put to death.

Those roads should be paved with f---- gold considering how much taxes were raised and how much he spent as governor.

He levied a road surcharge to paid for the road. And as for raising taxes to pay for the schools, he was forced to do that. The Arkansas Supreme Court ruled that he had to and ordered him to raise taxes. What the hell was he supposed to do, just shut down the government?

It really takes some gall to be pissed at a guy for building roads and schools. Sometimes I think conservatards must really work to live up to the stereotype that they enjoy kicking puppies and homeless people just to assert moral superiority, and the Huckabee bashing over taxes is one of those times.

 
SeismicJizzer 2007-12-15 09:13:54 PM  
LocalCynic: underbridge: Seriously, Huckabee pulling in independents? Are you high? Life-long republicans are talking about voting democrat if that insane theocrat gets the nomination.

A lot of moderates would vote for the guy. His religious views might be pretty extreme, but policywise, he was a fairly moderate governor. The people who think that we need to go house-to-house, and engage in Anne Frank style immigration checks probably won't vote for him, but other than that, he has a decent shot.


Doubt it, he is the republican version of Obama and living in a red state you would not imagine how many fundies I know who are seriously thinking of voting for Obama. Independents will never vote for HUCK over Obama. People are tired of Bush in office, his stench still reeks the Republican party, and that stench will dominate HUCK. Not to mention the democrats will be waiting with 13 years of governing Arkansas to dissect. Romney has given some ammunition and the democrats will just take over. One thing amusing to see is the social conservatives and Wall Street republicans are livid they have no control over the party anymore.

 
FuriousGeorge945 2007-12-15 09:14:40 PM  
It is awesome seeing the Republicans cower in fear at the monster they created.

Reap what you sow, chickens coming home to roost, etc etc.

 
SeismicJizzer 2007-12-15 09:17:32 PM  
yem_tex: However, if Clinton gets the nom and Guliani runs Huck as his VP, the GOP could pull this off.

It will never happen. Obama is gaining traction at the right time, while the Clinton camp is in disarray. Also the cross dresser has so much sleaze oozing off of him he has nothing to talk about other than 9/11. People are getting sick and tired of hearing about it.

/

 
LocalCynic 2007-12-15 09:19:02 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: ANybody that is a Christian and/or opposes abortion and gay marriage is labeled a "theocrat" from the "extreme right". The problem is a lot of non Christians and atheists oppose abortion and gay marriage too. :)

There are plenty of liberals who are opposed to abortion, but on a policy level they find the concept of criminalizing the procedure to be the wrong way to go. I think the irony is that conservatives always blame the left for perpetuating a "victimhood culture," but when it comes to abortion, religious conservatives are perhaps the worst about that. Their belief is that women who get abortions are just "victims" of Planned Parenthood.

Jubeebee: The evangelical bloc might be enough to win Huckabee the GOP primary, but if the Dems nominate anyone but Clinton, he'd get destroyed in the general election when the paleocons stay home. Huckabee might even be enough to split the GOP.

He's polling extremely well in the national polls and is drawing support from beyond the evangelical blocs. I mean, he's not going to get even close to winning New Hampshire, but his numbers are decent given the he's a Southerner. And he's picked up endorsements from the founder of the Minutemen and from the head of the Arkansas NRA. I think you'd be surprised at how many paleocons and blue dog Democrats would consider voting for him.

 
Indis 2007-12-15 09:21:32 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: Liberals think water boarding and sleep deprivation are forms of torture equivalent to cutting off limbs and piercing the testicles of a terrorist. You wouldn't oppose water boarding and sleep deprivation if it was your family and friends (assuming you have any) lives on the line. In the war on terrorism, we need more Jack Bauers and less Jimmy Carters. Now is not the time to elect dovish Neville Chamberlains who think "being nice" to terrorists is going to stop them or obtain info from them.

I do love how Conservatives love to throw out the Constitution (warrants, cruel and unusual punishments, stopping free speech) at a whim to bow to the authority of a state. And yes, this is accurate since there are terrorists who are American citizens.
Let alone the obvious false statements and hyperbole, which makes it laughable.

And the Bauer love is priceless - I have visions of this trollperson getting all misty when the 24 clock appears.

Don't cry emo Republican. Jack will make it alllll better.

 
LocalCynic 2007-12-15 09:24:20 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: You must be some college kid whose parents pay your bills and you have never worked a day in your life to pay these taxes you so covet.

Swing and a miss.

You act as though i'm SATAN because I oppose politicians that tax the crap out of me.

If you had the choice between driving on unpassable roads but having an extra ten bucks in your pocket, or getting taxed ten bucks a year so that the roads could be repaved, what would you pick? Yes, I do have a problem with people think that the Laffer curve means setting the tax rate to zero means that government is going to be able to build roads and pay for defense, or that any and all taxes are evil.

TO compare wanting to keep most of the money that I earn to "kicking puppies" is laugable. I don't think political debates are for you.

The "personal responsibility" brigade usually trots their stuff out whenever they feel the need to proclaim how morally superior they are to the poor. Maybe you should walk a mile in the shoes of somebody who is head to heels in debt because they got sick or injured by no fault of their own and lost their job.

 
SeismicJizzer 2007-12-15 09:28:21 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: Why does the media never ask liberals about their religion? They are always asking Mitt Romney about his and other Republicans about their religion.

It is because liberals don't wear their religion on their sleeve like the republicans. In addition, when you shout and scream we are the party with the most morals and the other party are heathens and then proceed to get caught paying cops to suck their dicks, buying meth from hookers, playing footsies in a public bathrooms, people get fed up.

 
LocalCynic 2007-12-15 09:29:34 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: You are in the minority on taxation. Most Americans want a tax cut. By your logic, most Americans are kicking puppies.

So most people, if they had a choice between a tax raise and paying zero taxes but having crumbling roads, would choose crumbling roads? I don't think that most Americans want to live in a scene from Mad Max.

 
keithgabryelski [TotalFark] 2007-12-15 09:30:34 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me:
Liberals think water boarding [...] are forms of torture equivalent to cutting off limbs and piercing the testicles of a terrorist.


Citizens that understand the law know that water boarding is a form of torture and torture is illegal no matter who does it, no matter who it is done to.

You wouldn't oppose water boarding and sleep deprivation if it was your family and friends (assuming you have any) lives on the line.


I oppose breaking the law.
I oppose people who are two scared to not put are soldiers in further danger so they can safe especially when the actions they advocate (torture) are known to cause more problems then they solve.

In the war on terrorism, we need more Jack Bauers and less Jimmy Carters.


Wow -- are you really gonna stick with the comparison of a President of the United States of America with a fictional TV character? Do you really want that on your resume?

You are afraid. I understand it -- we live in difficult times. Do not fear for our constitution so much that you will destroy it -- trust it -- support it.

Do not fear for our soldiers so much that you will increase the number of enemies that attack them. Support them by letting them do their job -- legally -- morally -- the way they were taught.

 
worlddan 2007-12-15 09:35:57 PM  
21. On December 15th, 2007 at 5:22 pm, Dee Loralei said:
Il Douche, Rudi's authoritarianism scares me because I think he'd be Cheney on meth. But electorialy Huckabee scares me more. I am pretty convinced he could beat Hillary and maybe even Obama in a general election. He has many many problems, ok, I am not for him as a candidate. But he is very personable and funny. His populism is quite appealing. And if you listen to him, he's running as the anti-Bush. Of all the Rep candidates, other than DrPaul, his stances are anathemic to what the Reps have stood for these last long 7 years. As the other candidates try to outdo each other in championing the absolute worse aspects of the Bush doctrine, he (and DrPaul on empire) is the only one offering an alternative world view, that is truly evangelically based. The country hates Bush and yet the other candidates are all trying to take up the Bush mantle. You'd think that after 06 elections most candidates would be running away from anything Bushie, but has it happened? Not just no, but hell no. I'd bet money that a large percentage of W's 27%ers would give passing grades to anyone, just out of respect for the office.

Hillary is running on a Bush-lite platform and if you don't think Huckabee's populism and willingness to talk to enemies and to have the counrty act as a good steward for the world won't appeal to many Independents and conservative Dems, all I can say is, you're just wrong. The country is aching for a break from the Bush years, Hils is not that break. The base will come out en masse to vote against her. The monied are already hedging their bets and donating to her campaign. And with a Romney and Guiliani as candidate the base would stay home, except against Hillary.

And the reason the "clothcoat" Reps are afraid of a Huckabee primary victory is not that they think he can't win the general, they fear he won't lose it. And if he did win, their own power would be greatly diminished within the party itself. Then the fundies would have absolute primacy because a "true" one of their own had won. Despite the monied and the media.

So, no matter what happens in the 08 election, the Republicans are going to have a "come to jesus" talk amongst themselves. And the party will splinter.


That comment was posted in the replies to the linked article. I am not the author but it sums up my thinking well. There will be lots of Republicans who can't stomach Huckabee. But the same thing that makes those Republicans squirm will make lots of indepnedents go "Yeah!". Sorry, but I am willing to throw the gays under the bus if it means sticking it to Big Business. That does not make me an "Evangelical". It makes me an independent who understand what my priorities are.

 
SeismicJizzer 2007-12-15 09:36:10 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: I don't know any conservative religious people who are going to vote Obama. He appeals to the religious left b/c a good majority of the religoius people on the left are black. I think the only white liberal Christian is Jimmy Carter. :)

I was born and brought up in the church, my dad is a Missionary as well as my Uncle and they both are voting for Obama. Talk about mouth opening shock when I heard about it. My best friends dad (who is as fundie as they get) told me he was voting for Obama and dammt this is ust in Oklahoma.

Here is more info Link (new window)

 
FuriousGeorge945 2007-12-15 09:36:12 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: How did Republicans "create" Huckabee?

When you spend every election since the 1980s pandering to the the Christian demographic in order to get a bigger voter turnout don't be surprised when they suddenly take control of the party and essentially abandon all the "conservative" ideals the party claimed to hold. Huckabee's rise has been the result of the religious right finally realizing that they have enough power to decide the direction of the party instead of just being good little foot soldiers in elections. The religious right has basically decided they want more than just the lip service the party has paid to them, and the rest of the party is scared shiatless of it.

It's gonna be hilarious if Huckabee gets the nomination. Not only will he get absolutely demolished by any Democrat, but the Republican party will come apart at the seams.

 
LocalCynic 2007-12-15 09:41:20 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: I used Jack bauer as an analogy, which was an effective one. Liberals are wimps that can't make tough decisions when lives on the line...

Jack Bauer from season 1 is a poor analogy. Conservatives love it because they like the idea of someone sadistically punishing the bad people without blinking. But Jack Bauer as a whole seems to comport better with liberal thinking. In season 2, he has serious moral qualms about torturing people, and eventually breaks down from the trauma of doing it.

The premise is that if we don't pay liberal's idea of fair taxation, the goverment will not have enough money for roads. This is a false premise that is easily rejected. The goverment has far more money than they need to provide roads and other basic services.

Except sometimes they don't. If you looked at the amount of money that many governments ACTUALLY have, it probably wouldn't sufficiently cover roads and basic services. Many governments are vastly underfunded, and tend to make up by borrowing. This is particularly true at the local and state level.

I've worked for enormous corporations and for governments, and the government groups I've worked with were actually much bigger penny pinchers than the big corporations.

 
Arthur Jumbles [TotalFark] 2007-12-15 09:47:48 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: Liberals think water boarding and sleep deprivation are forms of torture equivalent to cutting off limbs and piercing the testicles of a terrorist. You wouldn't oppose water boarding and sleep deprivation if it was your family and friends (assuming you have any) lives on the line.

Yes, I would. Not because of any deep seat ideological reasons.... I'm a pragmatist. I'm against torture simply because it doesn't work.

 
LocalCynic 2007-12-15 09:49:25 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: I never advocated physical torture.

Why? What's your opposition to torture? I never understood this. Are you afraid that it's not politically correct to say that you support torture? What is your reasoning for being against "real torture," whatever it is?

Waterboarding is nothing more than drowning people over and over again. The only difference between gagging someone and dunking them in a pool or river and waterboarding, is that in the latter the person is held or strapped down so they can be controlled. Water goes directly into people's lungs, forcing their body into shock. Do you think that holding people underwater and drowning them isn't torture? What about mock executions - are those over the line?

As I noted above, King James I believed that waterboarding was torture of the highest order, worse than sawing into people's thumbs.

Hell, you think killing them on the battifield after they've been shooting at our soldiers is torture.

There's a difference between shooting someone on the battlefield, and drowning someone over and over again. And it's pretty reasonable to suggest that there ARE rules in war. A country that lives by the "boys will be boys" or "what happens in Iraq stays in Iraq" mentality is one that is on the verge of ruin.

 
LocalCynic 2007-12-15 09:51:50 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: Goverment don't have to reduce overhead as they can always just raise taxes.

Yeah... let me tell you, it's all caviar and burning $100 bills when you're working in a government office. Nobody cares about costs, everybody just wastes like crazy because they're the government. Except not really.

 
LocalCynic 2007-12-15 09:54:42 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: Terrorists don't play by the rules.

You didn't answer my question. Why are you opposed to torture. Since these terrorists are so uber bad, why aren't you willing to torture them? Do you love terrorists so much that you're willing to draw the line at waterboarding?

 
thrgd456 2007-12-15 10:00:43 PM  
Huckabee will get us out of vietnam, oops, Iraq.

Hillary will keep us there.

 
Generation_D [TotalFark] 2007-12-15 10:00:59 PM  
Pastor Huckabee will not win:

-- Insisted a rapist get paroled because he was a member of his church. Overruled the parole board to do it while governor, and overruled the wishes of the victim. Rapist / church member goes on to murder and rape 2 more.

-- Claimed the power of prayer lost him 100 lbs in six months. Turns out medical evidence strongly suggests it was bypass surgery.

-- Entered politics in 1998 with the stated goal of "Taking back the government for Christ."

We will not be electing a self-delusional member of the American Taliban president, especially not after eight years of this side having full access to fiscal policy already. Faith-based initiatives have amounted to a giveaway to the various born-again churches. America is fed up, and rightly so.

 
Arthur Jumbles [TotalFark] 2007-12-15 10:02:26 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: Arthur Jumbles: rush_limbaugh_sent_me: Liberals think water boarding and sleep deprivation are forms of torture equivalent to cutting off limbs and piercing the testicles of a terrorist. You wouldn't oppose water boarding and sleep deprivation if it was your family and friends (assuming you have any) lives on the line.

Yes, I would. Not because of any deep seat ideological reasons.... I'm a pragmatist. I'm against torture simply because it doesn't work.

If somebody was waterboarding me, I would spill the beans. You would too. You say it doesn't work....mind if we try it on you? I bet I can get you to confess some things and the majority of it will be true. :)


The problem is there isn't any way to verify the information. People say whatever they think the torturer wants to hear just to stop the pain. With the proper application of electric current I'm 100% certain I could make you admit that you are the Queen of Sheba, that Jesus is really Santa Claus and that black is white. However, what you say and what's the truth are two different things.

 
keithgabryelski [TotalFark] 2007-12-15 10:05:26 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: I believe various divisions of our military and CIA have their own men subjected to waterboarding and sleep depreviation to build up their resistance to interrogation. Is our military torturing our own soldiers and intelligence officers?


These procedures are done with the soldier's permission.
It is not torture.

copulation with willing adult is legal. When you are not given permission it is called rape and is always a crime no matter who does it, no matter where it is done, no matter who it is done to.


There is a huge difference b/t physical torture and pyschological torture.


Waterboarding causes physical damage. Longer term damage. It is a form a torture. It is illegal.

You have a choice:
1: advocate for torture to be legal (the courts are not on your side about this)
2: advocate for waterboarding to not be classified as torture (although international law is against you on this as well as over a century of US history).

You can't argue that it is not torture and that it is not illegal.

Should America commit illegal acts? Should we allow secret police to commit these acts in our name?

It's easy to be a Miss America Contestant on this issue. I understand that. I see the overall picture though. Little American kids dying because naive losers like you were in power and couldn't dare waterboard a guy we know for sure is a terrorist and has information about terrorist plots.


No, you do not see the overall picture.
It is illegal.
torture emboldens the enemy.
It causes them to fight harder and to fight longer when they would otherwise surrender.
It adds to their recruitment efforts.
It provides justification for them to do similar acts on our people.
It denies moderates a position of detente.
It denies outside parties the ability to defend our actions

In short -- it is wrong and causes our men harm.


I respect yoour point of view...you are just too idealistic and naive though and America doesn't need naive people when confronting terrorists. These guys will cut your head off in a skinny minute. Your compassion for their "civil rights" is almost Orwellian. :)

I am not idealistic on these points. I am unwilling to justify bad actions that are known to cause more harm then good.

We follow our constitution (and geneva conventions, and human rights laws) for a reason -- because they are the best way for us to succeed -- even in the darkest times we know that sacrificing these laws will only sacrifice ourselves.

It takes courage to hold back rage -- even when we know that rage will cause more harm than good. We must find it within ourselves to do the best for our men and women who are in harms way.

 
FuriousGeorge945 2007-12-15 10:07:32 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: You are making us look bad to the rest of the world with that kind of rhetoric

My head just farking exploded into a million little pieces.

Are you one of those people who think waterboarding isnt that bad and shouldnt be considered torture because we do it to people in the SERE program?

 
LocalCynic 2007-12-15 10:09:08 PM  
rush_limbaugh_sent_me: If you are going to label all forms of interrogation as torture, we might as well cut off their limbs, etc.

Why shouldn't we cut off limbs? Damn near every powerful nation in the history of the world has engaged in torture. The Chinese, the Ottomans, the Greeks. The Romans even did it publicly. Why shouldn't we do it too? And why do we have to be so secretive about it?

You are making us look bad to the rest of the world with that kind of rhetoric and the terrorists use that propaganda against us to recruit more terrorists

Wait, so you're against torture because it might hurt someone's feelings? America is the most powerful nation in the history of the world. If we want to torture people, who's going to stop us? That's such a wimpy mindset - thinking we should show weakness and not saw off limbs or electrocute people because it "makes us look bad."

Waterboarding and sleep deprivation are not toture and it's irrresponsible for you to say that it is.

The author of the King James Bible disagrees.

 
Generation_D [TotalFark] 2007-12-15 10:12:13 PM  
America used to lead by example.

Do we want to strive for the low ground, and torture maim and kill anyone we want,

Or do we want to strive to be on the high road (to the shining city on the hill) ... and not stoop to the methods of terror and criminality ?

It would appear the Republicans among us have decided taking the low road is best, whether its in attacking Democratic (or moderate Republican) individuals, or attacking anyone that does not conform to their narrow worldview.

 
Generation_D [TotalFark] 2007-12-15 10:14:17 PM  
See, hating a hypocritical pastor that claims the moral high ground, when he himself has none of it, makes me a "LIBERAL"

Typical moron Limbaugh noise.

Go study our history you asshat, and when you do, remember it was Liberals, Moderates, Conservatives together that built this country.

Right now its only stupid neocon uneducated asshats trying to destroy it.

That would be you.

 
Generation_D [TotalFark] 2007-12-15 10:16:24 PM  
Sorry, not you, your position.

Limbaugh_sent_me_out_for_drugs . Limbaugh_sent_me_to_procure_underage_prostitutes_in_the_domincan_republic .

PS: Why aren't you in a uniform fighting for what you believe in? Internet tough guy?

 
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