You almost need to do a double take on the TFA headline.
/did I read that right?

I think they're thinking along the same lines that I did. that just because it might be a few more years off than we thought til a iranian produced bomb cam be used, do we ignore it til then? obviously israel won't.

Some in Israel are beginning to fear that the US may not be 100% all the time purely on their side in every circumstance, in the future. There have been several articles along those lines in the JPost and elsewhere every so often for a while, and this seems like another, particularly the last bit where he also worries that the US is going to give some concession to the PA.

In some sense it's a "strike while the iron is hot" philosophy, seems like.

In other news some in Japan are quite upset about the idea that the US might remove North Korea from the list of terrorist countries, in return for them fully mothballing their nuke program. Japan wants to leave them on the list until they "handle" etc the kidnapping of some Japanese citizens (but those people think their relatives are still living, I think they're wrong about that, even if NK may have lied about how they died).

Thing is, the US is going to do what it wants to do for its own national interest, and so the ally countries get worried if they think it's not going to fully take in the ally countries' interests also, in both cases.

Interesting, anyway. Last time the discussion of "should the US bomb Iranian facilities" came up in the JPost there were some commenters who basically said the best plan is to get the US to do it, so anyone in that camp would probably be annoyed if the US looks like it is easing the tensions.

Day old press
Israeli official: U.S. is not doing enough on Iran nukes

Shas minister: Americans' attitude to report reminiscent of Auschwitz

Israel launches diplomatic offensive to counter US report
Fearing world will dissolve united front against Tehran after US releases report claiming Iran has frozen its nuclear program, Israel orders its diplomats to campaign for tightening sanctions against Islamic republic.

---
Israel fails to convince U.S. of Iran threat

Israel's German envoy: Stand up to Iran
Iran Continuing Nuclear-Arms Development, Israel's Olmert Says

itazurakko: Thing is, the US is going to do what it wants to do for its own national interest, and so the ally countries get worried if they think it's not going to fully take in the ally countries' interests also, in both cases.

The problem is, Israel isn't really an ally so much as the US is on their leash.

Good thing we know not to trust the Jews.

Cue the Jewish "That's Racist!" kid.

Oh that's right, we don't have one.

I fully support Israel's right to defend herself without any American involvement whatsoever.

Ah, the appeal to antisemitism.

It would be terrible if Israel didn't have that old thing ready to smear anyone who looks at them funny.

Snarfangel: I fully support Israel's right to defend herself without any American involvement whatsoever.

THIS


I think we should trust Israeli intel cause as you know they were 100% about Iraq and its WMDs

Glass-full of parking lot, please?

and hillarity ensues

Honestly, as much as I support an Israeli state, I think it's government has abused the Holocaust to justify their own human rights abuses. The create their own ghettos, this time for Palestinians, and their soldiers mistreat civilians. Also they are like an abusive spouse to Lebanon.

Olmert is at least talking a Palestinian state, and since Arafat died that is now a possibility, especially with Hamas showing they are more ineffective than Fatah.

Snarfangel: I fully support Israel's right to defend herself without any American involvement whatsoever.

I don't think this has ever been stated more clearly. America seems only to exist to serve special interests. Israel is the top lamprey.

It's snowing hard in Michigan at the moment. All powder-like.

/if only there were some nearby skiing

Royale With Cheese: Glass-full of parking lot, please?

Make it a double.

Well, duh. There's a war scheduled - just because the untimely revelation of facts means we can't pull off what we had planned doesn't mean our ally can't pick a fight. Heck, they can even go nuclear and claim self-defense.

This'll be fun to watch. For a short while, anyway.

Its either now or then. Iran WILL develop nukes. Its just a matter of when. We also dont know who will be in power when they do. Ahmanutjob may still be in power then, and then the whole world will have problems.

Royale With Cheese: Royale With Cheese: Glass-full of parking lot, please?

Make it a double.

/now you're talking to yourself

We can trust the Israelis! I think they only have peaceful intentions!

Royale With Cheese: Glass-full of parking lot, please?

Israel yes?
Lots of our problems would go away

//Whats funny is that the PEOPLE of Israel wants peace but the hardliners/zionist want war
/// Think about this whay every country at one point in time that had Jews threw them out
////Iran should force that 30,000 Iranian Jews to live within a mile of those nuke sites

Snarfangel: I fully support Israel's right to defend herself without any American involvement whatsoever.

Tarkus31: Ahmanutjob may still be in power then,

1) he has NO control over the military
2) his term ends in 2009
3) even the clerics don't like him, so the chances of reelection are slim to none.

starsrift: We can trust the Israelis! I think they only have peaceful intentions!

They perform consistant land grabbing over time, and water table draining to chase the palestinians into miserable desperation, then when they lash out they call them terrorists. It's a simple equation that is as old as time. Authority always has defacto credibility, so they use that. People don't delve into this topic very deeply, they just side with their "allies"

Anyone else want some?

fark those land stealing hooked nose devils and their American milk maids too.

If Israel wants war with Iran, they have their owns nukes to do so with.

Persepolis: Tarkus31: Ahmanutjob may still be in power then,

1) he has NO control over the military
2) his term ends in 2009
3) even the clerics don't like him, so the chances of reelection are slim to none.

I've heard he's been losing popularity lately. But sometimes I worry if he wont try to make a grab for power and get controll of the military, ban elections etc.

If he doesnt, by holding elections, and being civil, then my respect will actually go up for him.

Israel starts the fight, and the U.S. will go win it for them! Genius!

What have the Israelis ever done for us?

This is also one of the reasons I wish we would have listened to George Washington and his ideas of isolationism. Be nice and civil with the rest of the world, but stay out of their business and they will leave us alone. I know that didnt work for us at the beginning of WWII, but I think it might have solved alot of problems for America.

Tarkus31: Persepolis: Tarkus31: Ahmanutjob may still be in power then,

1) he has NO control over the military
2) his term ends in 2009
3) even the clerics don't like him, so the chances of reelection are slim to none.

I've heard he's been losing popularity lately. But sometimes I worry if he wont try to make a grab for power and get control of the military, ban elections etc.

If he doesnt, by holding elections, and being civil, then my respect will actually go up for him.

The Clerics are in control of Iran Amendeeejoob is just a puppet

Tarkus31: But sometimes I worry if he wont try to make a grab for power and get control of the military, ban elections etc.

That would never happen
The clerics would never let that happen
The bazariis would never let the clerics let that happen.

It's a delicate balance over there. The bottom line is the Ayatollah controls everything, and he controls everything because the bazaris (businessmen who control money) let him.

Tarkus31: If he doesnt, by holding elections, and being civil, then my respect will actually go up for him.

He's not going to. Not because he's a great guy, because he can't.

It's like saying back when saddam was about to be hanged, "Man, I hope he doesn't get back into power one day"

He doesn't have the authority to change rules like that. No way.

Tarkus31: I've heard he's been losing popularity lately. But sometimes I worry if he wont try to make a grab for power and get controll of the military, ban elections etc.

This would be about as goofy as worrying about the US Secretary of State seizing power.

cameroncrazy1984:
The problem is, Israel isn't really an ally so much as the US is on their leash.

theigorway: What have the Israelis ever done for us?

they give us figs and dates we give them billions for them

//India is now starting to give us Paypaya we give them nuke designs

Persepolis: Tarkus31: But sometimes I worry if he wont try to make a grab for power and get control of the military, ban elections etc.

Tarkus31: If he doesnt, by holding elections, and being civil, then my respect will actually go up for him.

He's not going to. Not because he's a great guy, because he can't.

It's like saying back when saddam was about to be hanged, "Man, I hope he doesn't get back into power one day"

He doesn't have the authority to change rules like that. No way.

Thats what I figued. I personally think if he could, he would make himself the supreme all powerful leader. Its just what you said, there are too many other forces at work for him to do it.

This whole Iran-nuke dance has continued to spin off in ridiculous directions. The national intelligence estimate said Iran was working on building nukes but shelved it in 2003, for basically unknown reasons. Bush gets jumped by the press for saber-rattling about Iran in 2007, but Bush still wants to keep the sanctions cause gosh, they *are* working on mid-range ICBMs, and they *were* working on a glass-parking-lot maker ["just cause Bush says it doesn't make it false" {Tom Friedman??}].

But the Israelis sound nuttier than the president of Iran on this. If they said stopping sanctions would increase the risk of a regional war, that would have been defendable. But the article makes them sound like they wanted "goodfacts" printed instead of "truefacts". And thats Fox News spinning reporting it.

In the Middle East conflict, if push comes to shove, what will be more important to the US: religion or oil? The Armageddonist evangelical Christians will support Israel no matter what. It is an indispensable part of their recipe for end-times.

A lot of much more wealthy business interests would side with the Arabs and Iranians because they have the oil, and there is not so much as one oil field in Israel.

Tarkus31: I personally think if he could, he would make himself the supreme all powerful leader

Sure, wouldn't you? Wouldn't everybody? Good thing that most people can't.

The clerics were lucky enough to get to the height of their movement during the outing of the shah. There was a power vaccum and they filled it.

(They helped create it too, but they weren't the only ones)

fark Israel. We are not their biatch. It is not our job to protect them from their enemies nor to water down the truth so it better fits with their agenda.

If they didn't want to live with enemies (real and exaggerated) all around them they shouldn't have taken over someone else's land.

Is Israel serious? Do they think Iran is stupid enough to nuke them? Gee, what would happen to Iran in such a case?

I'm trying to figure out what Israel has to gain from this stance, but it hasn't come to me yet. Maybe they figure the bigger the threat the more US tax dollars will be dropped into their pockets.

theigorway: What have the Israelis ever done for us?

Well, considering about half of the most powerful US politicians have dual Israeli/US citizenship the question is WHAT HAVE YOU EVER DONE FOR ISRAEL.

Oh yeah, the Jews own your media and banks. Meow.

starsrift: We can trust the Israelis! I think they only have peaceful intentions!



Ummmm.... the Israelis captured the West Bank from Jordan and the Gaza Strip from Egypt. Who are these Palestinians you speak of? Maybe they should talk to Jordan and Egypt since these two countries seem to have stolen "their" land first.

Hopefully Israel is offended to the point that they will stop accepting U.S. financial aid.

Persepolis: Tarkus31: I personally think if he could, he would make himself the supreme all powerful leader

Sure, wouldn't you? Wouldn't everybody? Good thing that most people can't.

The clerics were lucky enough to get to the height of their movement during the outing of the shah. There was a power vaccum and they filled it.

(They helped create it too, but they weren't the only ones)

Sure I'd like to be some all powerful leader, but what are the chances of it working? Sometimes you have to be thinking of the collective good. I can say that I would probobly make a really bad ruler of a country/region etc.

Tarkus31: I can say that I would probobly make a really bad ruler of a country/region etc.

I think I'd be great. Free puppies who fart rainbows and ice cream for everyone.

Tarkus31:

FDR embargoed Japan's fuel, committing the first act of war.

So Israel is saying that if the US doesn't bomb Iran, they will. If there ever was an appropriate use of the phrase "cut the nose to spite the face," this seems like it.

Persepolis: Tarkus31: I can say that I would probobly make a really bad ruler of a country/region etc.

I think I'd be great. Free puppies who fart rainbows and ice cream for everyone.

I think thats where you and I differ. I would sit around listening to music all day and not get anything done. Not like that happens now or anything.