Hilarious.

But not in the view of the confiscation crowd. They point at the weapons the gunmen used and say that banning them would halt such shootings.

Gun-related homicides, per 100,000 (2002)
Japan - 0.02
England/Wales - 0.15
United States - 3.98

FormlessOne: Gun-related homicides, per 100,000 (2002)
Japan - 0.02
England/Wales - 0.15
United States - 3.98

Is that gun related homicides out of 100,00 homicides? If someone is getting killed does it really matter what they were killed with?

FormlessOne:

Gun-related homicides, per 100,000 (2002)
Japan - 0.02
England/Wales - 0.15
United States - 3.98

Do we have more precise information about these homicides?

How many are gang members killing other gang members? How many are of robbers getting shot by the people they were robbing, etc? I'd classify these as "occupational risks", rather than homicides.

FormlessOne: England/Wales - 0.15

Isn't that the country that just passed a law outlawing swords because of sword related murders and attacks?

Gun-related homicides, per 100,000 (2002)
Japan - 0.02
England/Wales - 0.15
United States - 3.98

I like those odds. Besides, America has a lot more blowhards in need of a good stifling. If it weren't guns it would be hammer attacks or knives, whatever -that's how we roll

Temescal:
How many are gang members killing other gang members? How many are of robbers getting shot by the people they were robbing, etc? I'd classify these as "occupational risks", rather than homicides.

Oh, definitely! And instead of police reports, we could issue OSHA reports! No need for investigations except to answer "was the shooter operating his gun in a safe manner?".

Not that we're worried about the shooter; afterall, killing people is simply part of the job description.

Shot, stabbed, or beaten to death. Tough call.

Egoy: Is that gun related homicides out of 100,00 homicides? If someone is getting killed does it really matter what they were killed with?

It's out of 100,000 population.

Still, statistics are misleading. Check overall homicide rates and compare them, as well as rates from heavily-armed states such as Switzerland. It's not the guns that are a problem. We just simply have a very violent culture.

I really hope these retards get to see their wet dream come true. Everyone everywhere should carry a gun at all times. It's gonna be LOL time when someone starts shooting then ten cowboys all whip out their piece to save the day.

quadropheniac: Still, statistics are misleading. Check overall homicide rates and compare them, as well as rates from heavily-armed states such as Switzerland. It's not the guns that are a problem. We just simply have a very violent culture.

I used to wonder about that term - violent culture - until I saw a video of a father pitting two of his very young sons against each other, encouraging them to fight so they wouldn't turn into "sissies." Then in the Fark thread, a lot of people didn't see the problem. Now it makes sense.

quadropheniac: It's out of 100,000 population.

That makes more sense.

HotWingConspiracy: . Everyone everywhere should carry a gun at all times.

Especially Muslims living in Texas. It'll be safety central then, won't it?

t's gonna be LOL time when someone starts shooting then ten cowboys all whip out their piece to save the day.

...or, more accurately, when one or two people shoot back and stop the killer, like that lady did when the crazy guy went to shoot up that church this week. And no, despite what the press tried to pretend, she wasn't a "security guard," she was a citizen with a pistol.

Forgot that, did ya?

The mall shooting in Utah was in Salt Lake City, not Ogden. Therefore the entire article is bunk.

Mars232: Exactly,I bet if you showed ALL homicides as a percentage of the total population they would be near equal.

Google Powers active, form of murder stats (new window)

mediaho: I used to wonder about that term - violent culture - until I saw a video of a father pitting two of his very young sons against each other, encouraging them to fight so they wouldn't turn into "sissies."

ZIt's the video games, before them it was the rock and roll.

cirby: t's gonna be LOL time when someone starts shooting then ten cowboys all whip out their piece to save the day.

...or, more accurately, when one or two people shoot back and stop the killer, like that lady did when the crazy guy went to shoot up that church this week. And no, despite what the press tried to pretend, she wasn't a "security guard," she was a citizen with a pistol.

Forgot that, did ya?

No I remember it. The guy killed himself.

How about in a mall with dozens of people standing all around you. Who is the bad guy? I see 10 people with guns. Oh shiat! One of them thinks I'm the original shooter. I better ice him before he gets a shot off at me.

HotWingConspiracy: How about in a mall with dozens of people standing all around you. Who is the bad guy? I see 10 people with guns. Oh shiat! One of them thinks I'm the original shooter. I better ice him before he gets a shot off at me.

Has that ever happened or are you making stuff up? Just because guns are legal not everyone has one.

HotWingConspiracy: I really hope these retards get to see their wet dream come true. Everyone everywhere should carry a gun at all times. It's gonna be LOL time when someone starts shooting then ten cowboys all whip out their piece to save the day.

Didn't that just happen in a Colorado MegaChurch?

Gunman killed after opening fire at church

mediaho: I used to wonder about that term - violent culture - until I saw a video of a father pitting two of his very young sons against each other, encouraging them to fight so they wouldn't turn into "sissies." Then in the Fark thread, a lot of people didn't see the problem. Now it makes sense.

Yeah, it's sort of depressing, I suppose. Not much we can do about it, though. Forced culture modification always ends badly.

Egoy: ZIt's the video games, before them it was the rock and roll.

Exactly :).

Serious note on that, though: our media does portray a lot of violence in a positive note, and vigilante fiction is very prevalent in our society. I think this is more of a reflection of our culture though, instead of fueling it. AKA, regulating it would accomplish nothing.

Egoy: HotWingConspiracy: How about in a mall with dozens of people standing all around you. Who is the bad guy? I see 10 people with guns. Oh shiat! One of them thinks I'm the original shooter. I better ice him before he gets a shot off at me.

Has that ever happened or are you making stuff up? Just because guns are legal not everyone has one.

Uh...

I really hope these retards get to see their wet dream come true. Everyone everywhere should carry a gun at all times.

Mars232: HotWingConspiracy: cirby: t's gonna be LOL time when someone starts shooting then ten cowboys all whip out their piece to save the day.

...or, more accurately, when one or two people shoot back and stop the killer, like that lady did when the crazy guy went to shoot up that church this week. And no, despite what the press tried to pretend, she wasn't a "security guard," she was a citizen with a pistol.

Forgot that, did ya?

No I remember it. The guy killed himself.

How about in a mall with dozens of people standing all around you. Who is the bad guy? I see 10 people with guns. Oh shiat! One of them thinks I'm the original shooter. I better ice him before he gets a shot off at me.

Thats never happened,EVER. CCW holders commit FAR fewer crimes than any other segment of the population. Responsible people dont go whipping out a gun and start shooting everything that moves.

I know it hasn't, the wet dream has yet to come true.

I couldn't even make it all the way through TFA. What a load of crap!

I especially love how the pastor credited the security guard with saving 50-100 lives.

I suppose the only answer is to mandate everybody carry firearms. That way, we can all take out the throngs of madmen wherever they strike.

For the record, I am a gun owner and holder of concealed carry permit.

quadropheniac: Egoy: Is that gun related homicides out of 100,00 homicides? If someone is getting killed does it really matter what they were killed with?

It's out of 100,000 population.

Still, statistics are misleading. Check overall homicide rates and compare them, as well as rates from heavily-armed states such as Switzerland. It's not the guns that are a problem. We just simply have a very violent culture.

It has more to do with poverty and racism than culture. The Swiss have a universally high standard of living, is virtually all one race and doesn't have all manner of cultures flowing into them.

FormlessOne: Hilarious.

But not in the view of the confiscation crowd. They point at the weapons the gunmen used and say that banning them would halt such shootings.

Gun-related homicides, per 100,000 (2002)
Japan - 0.02
England/Wales - 0.15
United States - 3.98

England/Wales, and most especially Japan, have fewer blacks than the US.

White homicide rate, US: 2.72 per 100,000.
Homicide rate in England/Wales: 1.36 per 100,000*.
Homicide rate in Japan: around 1.0 per 100,000.

Whites in the US actually have a homicide rate equal to that of Europe taken as a whole. Which makes sense, if you think about it: They come from the same culture.

Asians in the US have some of the lowest homicide rates, roughly on par with their ancestral home countries. According to the CDC WISQARS page, the homicide rate for Asian/Pacific Islanders is 2.41 per 100,000. That is the lowest number of any group in the US, and remember that includes ethnic Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Philipinos, along with Hawaiians, Samoans, etc.

Blacks in the US, on the other hand, have a homicide rate of 21.68.

All of these groups have the same theoretical access to firearms in the United States, although whites tend to actually be more likely to own firearms than any other group.

Yet they all have different homicide rates.

Gee, maybe it isn't access to guns, after all.

By the way, Japan has a suicide rate up near the homicide rate of blacks in the US. I guess if I lived in as repressive a society as that, I'd want to kill myself also.


*The douchebag Home Office website makes you actually do the math yourself, and they only go to one significant digit and use 'per 1,000' so that it makes it seem like there are zero murders.

Hey look Two of the biggest gun control countries are way more dangerous than the United States.

Mexico and Russia....

They have much stricter gun laws than the United States, funny how people never mention those countries when they BORDER The United States, but instead would rather pick island countries far away from the US (UK and Japan) as the bastions of what gun control can do....

cirby: And no, despite what the press tried to pretend, she wasn't a "security guard," she was a citizen with a pistol.

Actually, she volunteered to patrol the parking lot to provide security. She was a security guard.

HotWingConspiracy: No I remember it. The guy killed himself.

After she popped two caps in his ass.

In other words, she stopped him from killing any more people.

quadropheniac: s are misleading. Check overall homicide rates and compare them, as well as rates from heavily-armed states such as Switzerland. It's not the guns that are a problem. We just s

I will say state my opinion that the violent culture that you speak of is real, and that it has resulted from the State. We have war, imperialism, and a drug war that breeds criminal behavior.

I keep trying to tell people that a full decriminalization of drugs will bankrupt most of the mafia and organized crime. Who would buy drugs from a corner vendor when you can go to CVS and get metered, clean doses. What business would buy cocaine from a drug lord when they can go through a bulk supplier?

mediaho: quadropheniac: Still, statistics are misleading. Check overall homicide rates and compare them, as well as rates from heavily-armed states such as Switzerland. It's not the guns that are a problem. We just simply have a very violent culture.

I used to wonder about that term - violent culture - until I saw a video of a father pitting two of his very young sons against each other, encouraging them to fight so they wouldn't turn into "sissies." Then in the Fark thread, a lot of people didn't see the problem. Now it makes sense.

Were they black? Because the only real violence problem we have in the US is among the black population.

Which, by the way, is the goal of gun control, to disarm black people. You think the idea is to take Jimmy-Joe's deer gun, Fred's single action revolver, or Jeff's skeet gun? Nah. It's to take Tyrone's 9mm.

Mars232: Thats never happened,EVER. CCW holders commit FAR fewer crimes than any other segment of the population. Responsible people dont go whipping out a gun and start shooting everything that moves.

Well, yeah, we wouldn't expect criminals to apply for a CCW, would we?

Mars232: Responsible people dont go whipping out a gun and start shooting everything that moves.

That's why handing out guns like candy to school children isn't a particularly bright idea. I'm all for responsible people carrying guns around, I'm just not of the opinion that the best solution to some idiot with a gun is to put guns in the hands of every idiot.

You people and your guns. More gun crimes? Uh, let's get more guns out there!

/morans

A couple of points about 'No Guns Permitted' signs.

If you bring a gun to a public place, like a shopping mall and fire it, in most states the owners of that place are partially libel for any civil damages incurred. It doesn't matter the reason why you shot the gun... if somebody sues because of it the owner of the property is still partially libel for allowing access and not preventing your discharge of the firearm.

While almost universally CCW holders are law abiding citizens, there is no way for a security guard to tell the difference between a person who has a permit and a person who doesn't. A security guard will perhaps catch that a person is carrying a gun, and they will have to stop that person because they are not going to be able to tell if that person is a legal citizen or somebody with murder or robbery on their mind. This takes away resources from the security providers that could be better invested towards watching for pick-pockets, shoplifters, and other thieves.

dittybopper: Were they black? Because the only real violence problem we have in the US is among the black population.

Which, by the way, is the goal of gun control, to disarm black people. You think the idea is to take Jimmy-Joe's deer gun, Fred's single action revolver, or Jeff's skeet gun? Nah. It's to take Tyrone's 9mm.

you are a trolling dick. Being a violent asshole has nothing to do with being black and everything to do with being poor. Correlation is not causation.

jcooli09: cirby: And no, despite what the press tried to pretend, she wasn't a "security guard," she was a citizen with a pistol.

Actually, she volunteered to patrol the parking lot to provide security. She was a security guard.


She VOLUNTEERED. She was not being paid. She was carrying her personal firearm.

Calling her a "security guard" makes people think she was a Wackenoff rent-a-cop, which she wasn't.

REOIV: Mexico and Russia....

They have much stricter gun laws than the United States, funny how people never mention those countries when they BORDER The United States, but instead would rather pick island countries far away from the US (UK and Japan) as the bastions of what gun control can do....

1 out of 2, not bad.

//more evidence the real problem in our country is maps
///and the iraq

dittybopper: Were they black POOR? Because the only real violence problem we have in the US is among the black population lower class.

FTFY, you simple fark.

JosephMother
You people and your guns. More gun crimes? Uh, let's get more guns out there!

Could it be that because we made more and more gun free zones we made it easier for those who would use guns against others to find a location where they know their victims will most likely be unarmed and unable to fight back against them?

If you had to shoot people would you want them to be able to shoot back at you?

Maybe instead of more guns, we just let those that wish to defend themselves the ability to do just that instead of denying them a basic human right because other people can't be trusted with it?

jcooli09: Actually, she volunteered to patrol the parking lot to provide security. She was a security guard.

I volunteered at a soup kitchen a few times. That does not make me a food service worker.

I know this will fall on deaf ears, but comparing the crime rates in different countries is a futile endeavor. Even if you can find stats adjusted for the discrepancies in reporting standards there are to many cultural and other factors to be able to come to a conclusion on the effect of a single policy.

dittybopper: jcooli09: cirby: And no, despite what the press tried to pretend, she wasn't a "security guard," she was a citizen with a pistol.

Actually, she volunteered to patrol the parking lot to provide security. She was a security guard.


She VOLUNTEERED. She was not being paid. She was carrying her personal firearm.

Calling her a "security guard" makes people think she was a Wackenoff rent-a-cop, which she wasn't.

I still have to wonder about this church group and their need for armed security/volunteers/whatever. I think they know that some of their wacko progeny is going to come back looking for some answers at the end of a gun.

Egoy: dittybopper: Were they black? Because the only real violence problem we have in the US is among the black population.

Which, by the way, is the goal of gun control, to disarm black people. You think the idea is to take Jimmy-Joe's deer gun, Fred's single action revolver, or Jeff's skeet gun? Nah. It's to take Tyrone's 9mm.

you are a trolling dick. Being a violent asshole has nothing to do with being black and everything to do with being poor. Correlation is not causation.


I'm not trolling.

And my whole point is that it isn't access to guns, it is culture that determines your likelyhood of being a homicide victim in the US.

It's not the actual color of your skin, but the subculture within which you were raised, and in which you choose to live, that determines that.

BY the way, it has *NOTHING* to do with being poor. This is probably the 10th time I've pointed this out on Fark in the last month or so, but here goes again:

There are about 16 million whites living below the poverty line in the US, and about 9 million blacks living below the poverty line. In 2004, 8,000 blacks were victims of homicide, while 5,426 whites were victims.

If poverty were the controlling factor, there would either have been 14,000+ white homicides, or only around 3,000 black homicides.

It ain't about being poor: It's about your subculture.

Failing_Junk: I know this will fall on deaf ears, but comparing the crime rates in different countries is a futile endeavor. Even if you can find stats adjusted for the discrepancies in reporting standards there are to many cultural and other factors to be able to come to a conclusion on the effect of a single policy.


This.

dittybopper: She VOLUNTEERED. She was not being paid. She was carrying her personal firearm.

Calling her a "security guard" makes people think she was a Wackenoff rent-a-cop, which she wasn't.

She was a volunteer acting as a security guard. That doesn't detract from what she did, but she was not just some schmo who happened to have a gun.

Most armed guards carry their own personal weapons.

She had it for a reason, albeit that reason was in case some punk kid gave her guff when she stopped him from stealing a car.

cancerous86
1 out of 2, not bad.

//more evidence the real problem in our country is maps
///and the iraq

So what is that big country to the west of Alaska Einstein?

ALASKA AND RUSSIA SHARE A BORDER

Alaska and Russia share a border. The U.S.-Russian maritime boundary zigzags down the Bering Strait between the Asian and American land masses.

Maybe you should keep your snarky comments to yourself before lambasting others based on your faulty view of geography.

Poopspasm: dittybopper: Were they black POOR? Because the only real violence problem we have in the US is among the black population lower class.

FTFY, you simple fark.

Don't see a lot of murders in Appalachia and that's probably the poorest area of the country.

/Just sayin.

REOIV: JosephMother
You people and your guns. More gun crimes? Uh, let's get more guns out there!

Could it be that because we made more and more gun free zones we made it easier for those who would use guns against others to find a location where they know their victims will most likely be unarmed and unable to fight back against them?

Are there any stats available for gun crimes with in a no-gun zone as compared to gun crimes in a hooray-gun zone?

People, if we make more rules the criminals will follow them this time. Right? Right?

/Not a gun nut, but those who think banning them are making ownership more restrictive will ease crime rates really need to educate themselves.
//Conversely, an armed society is NOT a polite society.
///Firearms, like anything else, are perfectly fine in the hands of a responsible owner.