Well that's reassuring.

There are so many things that can happen with your vote that the only hope is that an even number of people screw with it and it ends up being recorded as you intended, but you'll never even know for sure anyway.

The other option is just to stay home and forget the whole thing.

Great. Pity that no one said anything about the holey mess that these opaque ballot factories are.

In news from earlier this week California finally reported that the ESS machines were also broken. That's the same ESS that lost 18,000 of my neighbor's votes in Sarasota county.

It's a good thing dead Democrats haven't yet mastered magnetism.

Every area of the country has some amount of voting fraud. Always has, always will. To be a winner, a candidate has to be popular enough to overcome it. This is nothing new.

I truly believe that it's getting harder, though, thanks to the Internet. Well, it was getting harder until counties started switching to electronic ballots with no paper backups for review...

This story is so 2004. We can't even possibly care anymore, can we? I mean, elections are supposed to be rigged, right? They're not even hiding it anymore.

Locke3k: This story is so 2004. We can't even possibly care anymore, can we? I mean, elections are supposed to be rigged, right? They're not even hiding it anymore.

Its certainly cheaper per vote than campaigning and bribery.

but are they Huckable?

Is there any way for an average investor to make a long term bet against democracy?

No. No there's not. You could bet on oil companies but they'll screw their shareholders. Shareholder votes are meaningless too.

scottso: Every area of the country has some amount of voting fraud. Always has, always will. To be a winner, a candidate has to be popular enough to overcome it. This is nothing new.

But now large scale voter fraud can be executed cheaper and with fewer conspirators than ever before. One can not help but marvel at the wonders of technology and its ability to increase our productivity across so many industries.

TheConvincingSavant: It's a good thing dead Democrats haven't yet mastered magnetism.

I hate it when trolls make me laugh, but I have to concede the humor here.

And you are definitely correct on the technical point that Republicans are far more accomplished at rigging elections and defrauding voter. I concede that point as well.

Control_this: Is there any way for an average investor to make a long term bet against democracy?

Invest in overseas funds that are pegged against market indexes that that are measured in Pounds, Euros, Yen, or Rupis. As our Democracy goes down the crapper the Dollar will follow... and as the Dollar sinks the value of your investment in Dollars goes up.

Code_Archeologist: scottso: Every area of the country has some amount of voting fraud. Always has, always will. To be a winner, a candidate has to be popular enough to overcome it. This is nothing new.

But now large scale voter fraud can be executed cheaper and with fewer conspirators than ever before. One can not help but marvel at the wonders of technology and its ability to increase our productivity across so many industries.

At least with paper ballots, there might be proof if votes had been changed. Now, the only choice is to trust that there was no fraud. Considering how easy it would be to have each vote cast print out a paper receipt, I have no idea why its not mandatory.

Ohio can has paper trail now?

Why didn't subby enable voting in this thread?

flaEsq: That's the same ESS that lost 18,000 of my neighbor's votes in Sarasota county.

your neighbor voted 18,000 times?

flaEsq: That's the same ESS that lost 18,000 of my neighbor's votes in Sarasota county.

To be fair, your neighbor shouldn't have been allowed to vote 18,000 times.

Car_Ramrod: flaEsq: That's the same ESS that lost 18,000 of my neighbor's votes in Sarasota county.

To be fair, your neighbor shouldn't have been allowed to vote 18,000 times.

Worse yet, the neighbor was dead.


/happens all the time in Florida.

Rndhed: Car_Ramrod: flaEsq: That's the same ESS that lost 18,000 of my neighbor's votes in Sarasota county.

To be fair, your neighbor shouldn't have been allowed to vote 18,000 times.

Worse yet, the neighbor was dead.

/happens all the time in Florida.

At least he wasn't black.

flaEsq: That's the same ESS that lost 18,000 of my neighbor's votes in Sarasota county.

And I thought Chicago was supposed to be bad.

//Bandwagon

Bill Maher has a funny bit about how we can manage to keep track of every penny in every financial transaction every day, but when we need to count every voter once, we can't manage it.

What's up with that?

Votes Republican

...former Diebold, now Premier Election Solutions...

Quick change your name and your shiat wont be hackable anymore...

Chuck Wagon: Considering how easy it would be to have each vote cast print out a paper receipt, I have no idea why its not mandatory.

What would be helpful about that ? The receipt wouldn't have any guarantee that it matched the vote that ended up being counted, and unless you're holding a slip that says you voted for candidate A and the official result shows A getting no votes there's nothing you could do to prove your suspicions.

Was it not Democrats who purchased these machines for their districts?

.

Mordant: There are so many things that can happen with your vote that the only hope is that an even number of people screw with it and it ends up being recorded as you intended, but you'll never even know for sure anyway.

The other option is just to stay home and forget the whole thing.

I'd rather go vote and take the chance that my voice won't be heard, than stay home and guarantee that my voice won't be heard.

Well, I guess thats a little more difficult than using a flashdrive with a signed number on it.

Have the machines print out receipts and have the voter sign the receipt. Place the receipt in a secure collector's bin to use for recounts.

Simple enough. You NEED a paper trail for this kind of stuff.

I assume that only (R) magnets will work...

Oh no! If the machines can be tampered with how will republicans win elections?!?

Theaetetus: Rndhed: Car_Ramrod: flaEsq: That's the same ESS that lost 18,000 of my neighbor's votes in Sarasota county.

To be fair, your neighbor shouldn't have been allowed to vote 18,000 times.

Worse yet, the neighbor was dead.

/happens all the time in Florida.

At least he wasn't black.

He was republican, and voted for bush.

sarek_smile: Was it not Democrats who purchased these machines for their districts?

.

Not in ohio.

Are you farking kidding me? Just make a paper trail for these things already.

Really, what's the problem with that? It's so simple.

Poopspasm: Are you farking kidding me? Just make a paper trail for these things already.

Really, what's the problem with that? It's so simple.

The ones here have a little slip of paper that prints your vote. It unrolls under a piece of clear plastic, and theoretically verifies your vote.

No matter what the voting system is, it will be hackable and/or someone will biatch about it.

Punch cards - hanging chads and so forth, too difficult for some
scantron - hackable with a pen, no blind person option
paper ballots - hackable with a pen, no blind person option
level pulling systems - hackable with a stylus, braille on levers
computerized systems - hackable by hackers, fun to biatch at
biometric systems - biatchable, no anonymous voting anymroe
thumb ink systems - biatchable, who wants purple thumbs
printed paper tape - hackable by hackers (just print extra)
receipts handed out - copiable, useable for buying votes
internet voting - hackable by hackers. too difficult for some.
Bingo cards - easy for old people, hackable with a blotter
voice recorders - not anonymous, no 'dumb' person support

So even if you had a system that verified your vote, it doesn't stop extra votes from being cast. If there is a discrepancy, we'll figure out who won about after 8 years of court hearings.

Any suggestions on a good system?

pootsie: [snip] ...Republicans are far more accomplished at rigging elections and defrauding voter. I concede that point as well.

LBJ wants a word with you.

Ron Paul supporters seen rushing out to buy these

jcooli09: Poopspasm: Are you farking kidding me? Just make a paper trail for these things already.

Really, what's the problem with that? It's so simple.

The ones here have a little slip of paper that prints your vote. It unrolls under a piece of clear plastic, and theoretically verifies your vote.


That doesn't solve the problem.

What you need is a separate record to verify in case the first is tampered with.

For example, fill out a form (like the No. 2 pencil tests we all remember) and have it scanned at the site, as they do in Alaska and other places. If the electronic tally seems skewed, you can do a physical recount with the paper form.

Giving a "receipt" doesn't help uncover tampering with tallies. Only the physical record of the vote does that.

good news for democrats

Lenny_da_Hog:
Giving a "receipt" doesn't help uncover tampering with tallies. Only the physical record of the vote does that.

It does if you keep the receipts as a backup record to use in the event of a recount. My idea is that the voter verifies that their votes were awarded to the intended candidates, per the voting mahine record, then turns the receipt in before leaving.

There was never a problem with voting machines until 2000 and 2004 and by some random accident or chance everything was all better and fixed in 2006. Now that Hillary is down in the polls, there's a problem again.

014789: good news for democrats

Yes, because Democrats are notorious for carrying bags upon bags of magnets around with them.

Poopspasm: Lenny_da_Hog:
Giving a "receipt" doesn't help uncover tampering with tallies. Only the physical record of the vote does that.

It does if you keep the receipts as a backup record to use in the event of a recount. My idea is that the voter verifies that their votes were awarded to the intended candidates, per the voting mahine record, then turns the receipt in before leaving.

Ah. Most types that are giving receipts are so the voter can verify his/her own votes were correct. Yes, your plan works as well.

Elections are all for show. The real decisions are made in back rooms like they have always been. Democracy isn't real.

TheConvincingSavant
It's a good thing dead Democrats haven't yet mastered magnetism.

So our state government wasted a ton of taxpayer money on worthless insecure voting machines from companies that coincidentally are big supporters of the same political party as the purchasers, and that partisan douchebaggery is the best you can come up with?

I would just like to point out that the CEO of Diebold, (now Premier Election Solutions)was a top fund raiser for Bush and was quoted as saying, "I will do whatever I can to deliver the presidency to George Bush."

Job well done.

Poopspasm: Lenny_da_Hog:
Giving a "receipt" doesn't help uncover tampering with tallies. Only the physical record of the vote does that.

It does if you keep the receipts as a backup record to use in the event of a recount. My idea is that the voter verifies that their votes were awarded to the intended candidates, per the voting mahine record, then turns the receipt in before leaving.

In fact, the receipt should simply list all recorded votes for all of the candidates up to the moment in accord to the current voter's choices.

That way if you are voter #45670 and you vote for Jimmybob in the Presidential Elections you will get a receipt for every candidate in your local election with the choice of reviewing your voting form in case of error. In this way, every person will have the immediate tally in a personal receipt with a way of tallying the entire vote if enough voters collaborate to verify their receipts. Any fraud would be rapidly identifiable and vote tallies could be backtracked without relying on untrustworthy anti-American Republicans.