So what should she use, subby?

Oh, that's right. You don't really care. You're just the kind of asshat who would find something to be outraged about no matter what it was she did.

Pocket Ninja: So what should she use, subby?

Oh, that's right. You don't really care. You're just the kind of asshat who would find something to be outraged about no matter what it was she did.

Well, it depends... If she was trying to build a "I'm one of your common folk" image she would tour via train or bus. It would take longer, but that's the price one pays.

/not submitter

i just wanted to take this space to say fark hillary. i wasn't one of those people that really had any issues with her until she ran for president... not one of the old time hillary haters, but lately jesus she's been getting on my nerves.

Pocket Ninja: You're just the kind of asshat who would find something to be outraged about no matter what it was she did.

Asshat subby here. While I have on occasion been outraged by Hillary, in this case I think the whole thing is just plain stupid. Not sure if she thinks all the dumb hicks in Iowa will be impressed by a flying machine or if she doesn't realize your average red-state farmer doesn't tool around in a helicopter, but IMHO this is a stupid, expensive stunt that isn't going to help her at all.

Pocket Ninja -- I have sympathies for the submitter here. While I get your point, I thought the same thing s/he did when I first saw the story. To be completely honest, I'm trying like hell to like Hillary, but she makes it REALLY hard to do so. If she would just tell me what she actually believes, it might help.

/Seriously
//Did anyone read the Time cover story a few weeks back titled something like "What Hillary Really Believes?" It was amazing... the entire story included not a single solid stance from her.
//Makes me sad since I may have to support her in the general election

I can't even fathom the carbon impact she must be making with this little stunt.

Look, ma. She's got herself one of them thar whirlybirds.

SquirrelsOfDoom: Pocket Ninja: You're just the kind of asshat who would find something to be outraged about no matter what it was she did.

Asshat subby here. While I have on occasion been outraged by Hillary, in this case I think the whole thing is just plain stupid. Not sure if she thinks all the dumb hicks in Iowa will be impressed by a flying machine or if she doesn't realize your average red-state farmer doesn't tool around in a helicopter, but IMHO this is a stupid, expensive stunt that isn't going to help her at all.

It's never a good thing when the picture doesn't match the words, is it?

mmm... pancake: I can't even fathom the carbon impact she must be making with this little stunt.

Her farts don't stink. She's immune, just like Gore.

If Santa showed up at any local mall in a helicopter the same people would be thrilled, but the system is designed to go easy on fat old white guys.

SquirrelsOfDoom: Not sure if she thinks all the dumb hicks in Iowa will be impressed by a flying machine or if she doesn't realize your average red-state farmer doesn't tool around in a helicopter, but IMHO this is a stupid, expensive stunt that isn't going to help her at all.

Perhaps she thinks the quickest way to tour an entire farking state is to use a helicopter. Makes sense to me.

SquirrelsOfDoom: Pocket Ninja: You're just the kind of asshat who would find something to be outraged about no matter what it was she did.

Asshat subby here. While I have on occasion been outraged by Hillary, in this case I think the whole thing is just plain stupid. Not sure if she thinks all the dumb hicks in Iowa will be impressed by a flying machine or if she doesn't realize your average red-state farmer doesn't tool around in a helicopter, but IMHO this is a stupid, expensive stunt that isn't going to help her at all.

Just curious, are you an Iowan? If not, aren't you just stereotyping how you think they'll react short of some astroturfing to gin up outrage?

Pocket Ninja: So what should she use, subby?

Oh, that's right. You don't really care. You're just the kind of asshat who would find something to be outraged about no matter what it was she did.

Oh come on brother, you have to admit that if you are trying to humanize yourself descending from the clouds like a god ain't going to do it.

But dont worry, I am sure when Hill gets elected she will reward your obedience.
And no, im not joking I really do believe she will be President.

To be fair, Jon Snow, I think people from ANY state would feel the same way about a stunt like this. But I could be wrong. Maybe people will think it's cool and authentic.

Mordant: If Santa showed up at any local mall in a helicopter the same people would be thrilled, but the system is designed to go easy on fat old white guys.

golf clap. But you missed the bonus points. You could have included the fact that they both show up promising free stuff to children that their parents are going to have to pay for.

Does she play Ride of the Valkyries really loud, and fly in real low, from out of the sun? That scares the hell out of those Iowa folks.

She should've jogged across Iowa. Even I would vote for her then.

You're right smitty... that's not the best way to accomplish that.

7of7: SquirrelsOfDoom: Not sure if she thinks all the dumb hicks in Iowa will be impressed by a flying machine or if she doesn't realize your average red-state farmer doesn't tool around in a helicopter, but IMHO this is a stupid, expensive stunt that isn't going to help her at all.

Perhaps she thinks the quickest way to tour an entire farking state is to use a helicopter. Makes sense to me.

You see, you have to consider the "image" rather than the performance sometimes. It's like when the police do one of these snazzy gun buy back things. They paint it as wonderful and exchange glorious coupons for lunch or whatever. When you show up, there's a badge, sitting at a fold out table, collecting guns from citizens, in a line.



Understand?

Mordant: If Santa showed up at any local mall in a helicopter the same people would be thrilled, but the system is designed to go easy on fat old white guys.

If you think Hillary is as popular as Santa no wonder the majority of your post are so bizarro pessimistic. Somebody needs a little Christmas cheering up.

Wait, let me handle this.

Farker A: I farking hate Hilary. She is *comment of choice*. Liberals suck.

Farker B: Yeah? Well you hate America! You and all your conservative *enter comment of choice here* with goats! No hate like conservative hate!

Afternoon_Delight: HEY! Stop stealing my phrase, libtard!

I remember when we saw our first "whirly-gig" back in Iowa. We all hid in the root cellar for two weeks until we were absolutely sure that Gerald Ford had left the state.

You really think so, The Stealth Hippopotamus? I've never understood the math for that one. She's just not going to win over any republican votes. I think we can all agree that most members of the GOP still have a deep, abiding hatred for all things Clinton (hell, especially Hillary). Also, the extremely liberal members of the Democratic Party (myself included) will have a hard time even tepidly supporting her. She's REALLY disliked among liberals, regardless of what Fox News and CNN may tell people.

Don't get me wrong... I'll vote for her in the GE and I'll even tell everyone I know why they should vote for her. I just won't be able to stomach actively campaigning for her. Losing the activist base really hurts a candidate when it comes to boots-on-the-ground canvassing crunch time.

brap: I remember when we saw our first "whirly-gig" back in Iowa. We all hid in the root cellar for two weeks until we were absolutely sure that Gerald Ford had left the state.

I jumped on one at the County fair once. I think they used it on the show M*A*S*H. Was Hillary's like that? If so...she might pull it off.

Seneca Doane: Don't get me wrong... I'll vote for her in the GE and I'll even tell everyone I know why they should vote for her. I just won't be able to stomach actively campaigning for her. Losing the activist base really hurts a candidate when it comes to boots-on-the-ground canvassing crunch time.

Can you explain why every time the GOP hands the Democrats an easy win, they squander it on someone like Hilary Clinton or Jimmy Carter? Seriously. Where's the viable candidates?

GaryPDX: I jumped on one at the County fair once. I think they used it on the show M*A*S*H. Was Hillary's like that? If so...she might pull it off.

Political suicide is painless, it brings on many changes, and I can take it or leave it if I please

Jon Snow: Just curious, are you an Iowan? If not, aren't you just stereotyping how you think they'll react short of some astroturfing to gin up outrage?

Pay attention now, because this is the second time I've said this: I'm not outraged.

To answer your question, I grew up in Kansas; have spent much time in Iowa. Like most red staters I am generally amused/disgusted at just how badly out of touch Hollywood and/or Washington is with the flyover states. They just don't have a clue.

Silly Hilly! You should ostentatiously ride public transportation whilst your luggage is shuttled about in a Mercedes Limousine (just like AlGore in Oslo). -Because you see, it's image, not substance that matters in this game.

Tell them whatever they want to hear, show them whatever they want to see, confuse and frighten them if you must; all that matters is getting the power. GET THE POWER. Whatever it takes.

The LooseCannon - You want me to explain the Democratic party?! Yeah... not so much.

I honestly just joined the party in 2004 so I could vote in the primaries. I figured that someone needs to change this system, and no one will ever do it from a third party. sad but true.

I've always been a liberal (and not scared to use the term), but also recognized that the DLC took the party so far to the poll-driven, ideologically barren center that the party hardly represented me or my ilk. My first election was in 1992 and I wasted my vote on another Clinton. It was a choice that I had to make--despite the dirty taste it left in my mouth--just as this election will be if HRC wins. It was not a choice that gave me faith in the party.

Il Douchey: Silly Hilly! You should ostentatiously ride public transportation whilst your luggage is shuttled about in a Mercedes Limousine (just like AlGore in Oslo). -Because you see, it's image, not substance that matters in this game.

Tell them whatever they want to hear, show them whatever they want to see, confuse and frighten them if you must; all that matters is getting the power. GET THE POWER. Whatever it takes.

I would find your argument a bit more convincing if Hillary Clinton had ever taken a stand on anything. Since she hasn't, it's hard to argue that she's the one who offers "substance" and not just "image."

Seneca Doane: You really think so, The Stealth Hippopotamus? I've never understood the math for that one. She's just not going to win over any republican votes. I think we can all agree that most members of the GOP still have a deep, abiding hatred for all things Clinton (hell, especially Hillary). Also, the extremely liberal members of the Democratic Party (myself included) will have a hard time even tepidly supporting her. She's REALLY disliked among liberals, regardless of what Fox News and CNN may tell people.

Don't get me wrong... I'll vote for her in the GE and I'll even tell everyone I know why they should vote for her. I just won't be able to stomach actively campaigning for her. Losing the activist base really hurts a candidate when it comes to boots-on-the-ground canvassing crunch time.

Lets take this step by step:
1) Hillary lets the other Dems get close in the polls.
2) Hillary releases the money drive with "oh no, I could lose this" and she ranks in even more money.
3) Hillary raps up the Dem nod. Don't doubt the Clinton Machine ^tm. They helped a Arkansas hay seed take out a war time president.
4) At the same time Ron Paul starts showing all this internet "buzz" (all smoke and mirrors). He says that even tho he said he would not the people demand that he must go third party.
5) Now Hillary, Ron, and Republican (does not really matter) start going at it.
6) Hillary skates in with 42%.
7) Ron fires up a joint and watches the swearing in ceremony on tv.
8) Hillary raises corp taxes so that America is the highest in the world (not far to go, we are second) and the depression begains. Both figuratively and literal


This is going to suck

SquirrelsOfDoom: Pay attention now, because this is the second time I've said this: I'm not outraged.

Perhaps instead of condescension, you could actually read what I wrote. I didn't accuse you of being outraged.

To answer your question, I grew up in Kansas; have spent much time in Iowa. Like most red staters I am generally amused/disgusted at just how badly out of touch Hollywood and/or Washington is with the flyover states. They just don't have a clue.

As a Midwestern red stater, in your opinion how should Hillary travel in order to seem "in touch" without coming off as phony? You never answered Pocket Ninja.

Seneca Doane: //Makes me sad since I may have to support her in the general election

This is exactly the type of attitude that allows asshats to continue to get elected.

Seneca Doane: The LooseCannon - You want me to explain the Democratic party?! Yeah... not so much.

I honestly just joined the party in 2004 so I could vote in the primaries. I figured that someone needs to change this system, and no one will ever do it from a third party. sad but true.

I've always been a liberal (and not scared to use the term), but also recognized that the DLC took the party so far to the poll-driven, ideologically barren center that the party hardly represented me or my ilk. My first election was in 1992 and I wasted my vote on another Clinton. It was a choice that I had to make--despite the dirty taste it left in my mouth--just as this election will be if HRC wins. It was not a choice that gave me faith in the party.

I can't join a party. It's a basic point of view I have. The Founders didn't structure our government to be run by a party. They structured it to be governed by the individual. We, The People.

I'm an Independent.

I'll vote for the least retarded person I think will serve, We The People, best.

Seneca Doane: To be fair, Jon Snow, I think people from ANY state would feel the same way about a stunt like this. But I could be wrong. Maybe people will think it's cool and authentic.

I think it's a lose-lose. She can ride on the back of a pickup truck and people will condemn her for pandering. Anti-Hillary sentiment isn't going to be mollified by her method of transportation.

She's just not going to win over any republican votes.

That's just a bare assertion, devoid of any sort of evidence.

Also, the extremely liberal members of the Democratic Party (myself included) will have a hard time even tepidly supporting her. She's REALLY disliked among liberals, regardless of what Fox News and CNN may tell people.

Don't get me wrong... I'll vote for her in the GE and I'll even tell everyone I know why they should vote for her.

That is why she would win if she got the nomination. Democrats, even very liberal ones that talk shiat about her, will pinch their noses and pull the lever for her and encourage everyone sick of 8 years of Dubya to do the same. Her only real threat would be Romney, but I doubt he could survive a Giuliani smear campaign in good enough shape to win the White House.

Kanyon: Seneca Doane: //Makes me sad since I may have to support her in the general election

This is exactly the type of attitude that allows asshats to continue to get elected.

I hear you, man. And I completely agree. I've just learned over and over again that the system is so goddamn broken that there is no viable alternative to doing that right now. Tell me this; should I vote for Ralph Nader and make the possibility of a Huckabee or Giuliani presidency even more likely?

Jon Snow: As a Midwestern red stater, in your opinion how should Hillary travel in order to seem "in touch" without coming off as phony? You never answered Pocket Ninja.

Someone else already said it: If she wants to seem more down-to-earth, she could tour the state in a bus.

Jon Snow: Perhaps instead of condescension, you could actually read what I wrote. I didn't accuse you of being outraged.

I did read what you wrote--something about astroturfing to gin up outrage, whatever that means. If not, please join me in shrugging and taking a Fark forum discussion as seriously as is warranted.

Seneca Doane: Kanyon: Seneca Doane: //Makes me sad since I may have to support her in the general election

This is exactly the type of attitude that allows asshats to continue to get elected.

I hear you, man. And I completely agree. I've just learned over and over again that the system is so goddamn broken that there is no viable alternative to doing that right now. Tell me this; should I vote for Ralph Nader and make the possibility of a Huckabee or Giuliani presidency even more likely?

Would you rather not vote at all?

/quandries

Seneca Doane: I would find your argument a bit more convincing if Hillary Clinton had ever taken a stand on anything. Since she hasn't, it's hard to argue that she's the one who offers "substance" and not just "image."

I wasn't trying to argue that Hillary offers substance, I was cynically dismissing her and AlGore as manipulative opportunists who will do or say anything to obtain the power necessary to fulfill their agendas. Sorry for the confusion.

I ain't trust no politician what rides in a whirylygig.

Jon Snow: As a Midwestern red stater, in your opinion how should Hillary travel in order to seem "in touch" without coming off as phony? You never answered Pocket Ninja.

I know you did not ask me, but when has that ever stopped me? As a proud member of a flyover state. I'm a huge fan of the bus/train tour. It has a more personal feel for me. I would have to guess that it's better for the person running for office too. They have all their people and stuff right there. Plus if she runs in on Bio-fuel she can be green too.

Jon Snow: pinch their noses and pull the lever for her and encourage everyone sick of 8 years of Dubya to do the same.

You know, I just don't get this--I keep hearing this election referred to as if it's a referendum on the Bush administration. But Bush isn't running and neither is Cheney. At least back in 2000, talk about whether we wanted more Clinton years made some sense, since Gore was running.

But voting Democratic, no matter how godawful the candidate, because you want to end the Bush administration isn't clicking for me--the Bush administration will be over with no matter what.

Jon Snow: She can ride on the back of a pickup truck and people will condemn her for pandering.

Oh, I don't know. If she said she wanted to understand the discrimination African-Americans have suffered and had them drag her BEHIND a pickup truck I think I would respect that.

Jon Snow: I think it's a lose-lose. She can ride on the back of a pickup truck and people will condemn her for pandering. Anti-Hillary sentiment isn't going to be mollified by her method of transportation.

Sure, but there is a reason for that anti-Hillary sentiment. If you can actually identify what she really believes and how she is not waking up every morning, putting her finger in the wind, and deciding her stance based on polls, I would be happy to listen. But I have HONESTLY tried to like her, and she just gives me no reason whatsoever to do so. FYI, I'm NOT a "Hillary-hater." I'm just not supporting her in the primary race because I think there are better candidates.

That's just a bare assertion, devoid of any sort of evidence.

As is the assertion that she could possibly win over people who have consistently said, over and over again, that they don't trust her or her candidacy.

...even very liberal ones that talk shiat about her, will pinch their noses and pull the lever for her and encourage everyone sick of 8 years of Dubya to do the same.

You are correct, sir. I just don't think that means she can or will win in the general election. We disagree... now let's move on.

I don't really see anyone suddenly thinking she's blue collar if she comes riding into town on a cow or something. Personally, I'd prefer she use a penny farthing.

Boys and girls, lend me your ears. I'm 48 years old and I've been holding my nose EVERY TIME I VOTE, for the past 30 years. 2008 is BY FAR the weirdest and freakiest election year I've ever seen. It's like I'm about to watch a colossal slow motion train wreck and trying to find something, anything, remotely intact afterwards. It feels like everything is about to change, dramatically, and I can't take my eyes off of it.

/I long for the mountains

She should have used a blimp.

GaryPDX: Would you rather not vote at all?

Umm.... no. Which is exactly why I said that I will vote for her. Am I missing something here?

Fart_Machine: She should have used a blimp.

Now THAT is an idea I could support!

/Loves me a good blimp.

SquirrelsOfDoom: You know, I just don't get this--I keep hearing this election referred to as if it's a referendum on the Bush administration. But Bush isn't running and neither is Cheney. At least back in 2000, talk about whether we wanted more Clinton years made some sense, since Gore was running.

But voting Democratic, no matter how godawful the candidate, because you want to end the Bush administration isn't clicking for me--the Bush administration will be over with no matter what.

It's because Giuliani and Thompson are basically Bush clones. I said her only real competition would be Romney, because he isn't a Bush clone. Huckabee could present a challenge but I just cannot imagine him winning the nomination- he's alternatively too religious and too tax-happy for the opposing factions of the base.

Someone else already said it: If she wants to seem more down-to-earth, she could tour the state in a bus.

But that's only "seeming" down to Earth, right? You don't believe that would actually change anyone's mind that considered her not down to Earth in the first place, do you?

If not, please join me in shrugging and taking a Fark forum discussion as seriously as is warranted.

*Shrugs* Fuggedaboutit.