Nobody banned any speech here, subby, and the "chilling effect" argument is bullshiat. The university vice president has a right to her own speech, and her own opinion, and as long as there was no suppression or undue cost to the presenters, there's no first amendment problem.

Nice to see an Attorney General fighting for freedoms.

The chilling effect is not bullshiat, d'art. RTFA.

Radical Islam does want you dead. I don't understand what the uproar is about.

People trying to limit what I can say and hear is offensive to me. Does that count?

I agree with the Subby's sentiment...

Yet here on Fark there are those who would want to censor people for posting pictures like the following:



//You know who you are.

(yes the picture is fake)

TFA: [T]he students promoting Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West put up dozens of posters declaring, "Radical Islam Wants You Dead."
...
UF's screening was organized by the Law School Republicans, College Republicans, Gators for Israel, Jewish Student Union, and Jewish Law Students Association.

Whoa... didn't see that one coming!

Digeratus: Nice to see an Attorney General fighting for freedoms.

Worthless idiot.

FTFA:

[University President Bernie Machen] told [State Rep. Adam] Hasner the message from [student affairs vice president Patricia] Telles-Irvin was "intended to promote tolerance and diversity."

"Promoting tolerance and diversity" are magic words at a large public university. As long as you can use these words to describe your actions, you can get away with just about anything. Want to host NAMBLA on campus? You're promoting tolerance and diversity! Want to set fire to the College Republicans' office? Wear a T-Shirt proclaiming "tolerance and diversity" and you're golden!

It only works, of course, if you're promoting the correct tolerance (tolerate Christian values or Conservative ideals? Hell no!) and the proper kind of diversity (you can support any ethnicity, religion and political ideology you want, provided it isn't caucasian christian conservatism which is just plain evil!) Unless you renouce such things you're a "dangerous conformist" who "lacks perspective."

For open minded people they're pretty judgemental eh?

colovion: Want to set fire to the College Republicans' office? Wear a T-Shirt proclaiming "tolerance and diversity" and you're golden!

Really?

colovion: (tolerate Christian values or Conservative ideals? Hell no!)

Poor persecuted Christians... how ever do you get through the day with the burdens that are heaped upon you by others?

Digeratus: Nice to see an Attorney General fighting for freedoms a nomination as next Governor.

Bah. McCollum is a moron. This creep has a long record of losing statewide elections up until this last one where he replaced a well-regarded AG. He's a dyed-in-the-wool hyper partisian nutbag, well known for pandering. You may remember from the presidential impeachment hearings. He's a swabbie with a bad reputation.

Bill McCollum is like herpes. We keep getting rid of the guy but he keep coming back.

colovion: Want to host NAMBLA on campus? You're promoting tolerance and diversity! Want to set fire to the College Republicans' office? Wear a T-Shirt proclaiming "tolerance and diversity" and you're golden!


It's a good thing that you're not prone to exaggeration.

I agree with colovian

I remember when I was attending college, the University of Minnesota used to capture Christian student groups that distributed literature and have them fight lions at Bierman Field. Sad really.

The following is an ad hominem attack:

Bill McCollum is a douche.

As you were.

Digeratus: Nice to see an Attorney General fighting for freedoms.

The chilling effect is not bullshiat, d'art. RTFA.

The "chilling effect" argument is bullshiat, moron. The event went on as planned. You RTFA:


The film screening came and went without much incident, and it wasn't until Nov. 26 that Telles-Irvin sent a letter to the student body.


The letter from the administration did not stop the original event, nor did it threaten implicitly or explicitly any event in the future. You've either misunderstood what "chilling effect" means, or you're somehow under the impression that fighting speech you agree with by speech of your own is somehow oppression. You're another Christian crybaby who thinks they're being oppressed by those who disagree with them.

Uhh, guys? We don't have an alienated and angry seething mass of Muslims in this country.

Let's not create one, ok?

/moderates- no damn fun but they keep the rest of you alive

Digeratus: Nice to see an Attorney General fighting for freedoms.

Worthless idiot.

Sorry, that is harsh and obviously came out as a personal attack.

Your statement is worthless and idiotic.

I have not formed an opinion of you per se, but that statement was not a very good start.

It's just so all kinds of stupid I don't really know where to begin. Did you really RTFA? It's a college administrator that suggested the people who put up some posters should really apologize to people they offended with the posters.

The one threatening reprisals is the AG, ironically using the term "chilling effect".

"Fighting for freedoms", indeed.

However, the Biggest Asshole of the Story Award is reserved for:

That e-mail, from Law School Republicans member Matthew Klein to several campus groups, stated: "It is unfortunate that certain student organization leaders and supporters identify with the small wing of RADICAL ISLAM. It proves the threat is present even in Gainesville."

So if you put 2 and 2 together, these student organizations WANT TO KILL YOU!!! The Muslims groups on campus are dangerous!

KaponoFor3: Radical Islam does want you dead. I don't understand what the uproar is about.

If you ca name one time in the history of the world that an idea has ever successfully murdered someone, I'll admit that you're correct. Until then, you fail at life.

Krymore: KaponoFor3: Radical Islam does want you dead. I don't understand what the uproar is about.

If you ca name one time in the history of the world that an idea has ever successfully murdered someone, I'll admit that you're correct. Until then, you fail at life.

Considering common usage of the term, "radical Islam" is an insane offshoot of Islam that wants people of other faiths to subjugate themselves to its will or die.

Oh, and ideas don't kill people. People with stupid ideas (radical Islam) kill people.

I fully support any group's (person's) right to condemn any speech they find offensive. (Patricia Telles-Irvin, Muslim student organization)

I fully support the right to speech that some persons/groups will find offensive. (Rabbi Raphael Shore, Law School Republicans, College Republicans, Gators for Israel, Jewish Student Union, and Jewish Law Students Association)

/crazy libs
//who needs a battle of ideas?

bears repeating:

TFA
That e-mail, from Law School Republicans member Matthew Klein to several campus groups, stated: "It is unfortunate that certain student organization leaders and supporters identify with the small wing of RADICAL ISLAM. It proves the threat is present even in Gainesville."

So, yeah, once you start calling other students terrorists, you've crossed the line.

I'm amazed there this was even an issue - you do not get to shut down the people on campus that you don't like. Shame on the adminstration. They should know better.

For those of you who don't have a clue as to what i'm saying, let's try a bit of role reversal, see how this plays.

FTA:

So loud is the furor now, Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum is warning of possible legal action against university administrators who - in a widely circulated letter to students - sided with a Muslim student organization whose members saw the posters as an attack on their faith.

Now with a bit of zippity zap wallla walla wham bang:

So loud is the furor now, Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum is warning of possible legal action against university administrators who - in a widely circulated letter to students - sided with a Christian student organization whose members saw the posters as an attack on their faith.

Still agreeing with the administrations position and actions?

RanDomino: So, yeah, once you start calling other students terrorists, you've crossed the line.

If a student organization thinks that terrorists are just spiffy, then what do you do?

Weaver95: So loud is the furor now, Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum is warning of possible legal action against university administrators who - in a widely circulated letter to students - sided with a Christian student organization whose members saw the posters as an attack on their faith.

Still agreeing with the administrations position and actions?

How has the letter "chilled free speech" in either case?

Donald_McRonald: Weaver95: So loud is the furor now, Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum is warning of possible legal action against university administrators who - in a widely circulated letter to students - sided with a Christian student organization whose members saw the posters as an attack on their faith.

Still agreeing with the administrations position and actions?

How has the letter "chilled free speech" in either case?

If the college adminstration wrote a letter that told students that negative comments about say....Christianity...were not tolerated under any circumstances - don't you think that would have an effect on students?

Oh, and I've seen "Obsession". Here's a summary:

some MUSLIMS ARE GOING TO KILL YOU!!!

Weaver95
If a student organization thinks that terrorists are just spiffy, then what do you do?

They don't, so it's not an issue.

Weaver95: If the college adminstration wrote a letter that told students that negative comments about say....Christianity...were not tolerated under any circumstances - don't you think that would have an effect on students?

This isn't what happened. She (the student affairs vice president) said that people were offended and that the people behind the posters should apologize. Nobody was forced to apologize, nobody said that negative comments were not tolerated under any circumstances.

If someone had posters saying "Christofascists want to kill you," she might've done the same thing.

I Said:

Considering common usage of the term, "radical Islam" is an insane offshoot of Islam that wants people of other faiths to subjugate themselves to its will or die.

The term you're looking for is "Wahabism", or more accurately, "Wahabists". The people spreading this sensationalist, intentionally ambiguous "Islam wants you dead!" crap aren't doing so because they have any interest in stopping Wahabist terrorism, they're doing so to exploit a tragedy as a means to incite hatred against those they view as religiously inferior. People like that care about terrorism about as much as Rudy Giuliani cares about 9/11.

Oh, and ideas don't kill people. People with stupid ideas kill people.

No argument here.

Christianity, the religion of tolerance. Just don't talk to homosexuals, abortion providers, or anyone in Oklahoma City.

A State funded University cannot limit free speech because my taxes go to said university and I say so.

Muslims, Christians, I could care less...

God(s) gives great BJs!

Weaver95: If a student organization thinks that terrorists are just spiffy, then what do you do?

When I was in college, I knew of various student organizations who proposed that the best response to suicide bombs in the Middle East was to send car bombs into Muslim homes and markets, or to bomb Mecca. For that matter, I used to know plenty of Irish people who openly praised either the IRA or Ulster militias.

The attempts by these conservative groups to spout of politically correct doublespeak is revolting though.

weaver95I'm amazed there this was even an issue - you do not get to shut down the people on campus that you don't like. Shame on the adminstration. They should know better.

Who shut down what now?

TheNewJesus:

I don't really disagree, but there are some things here:

Christianity, the religion of tolerance. Just don't talk to homosexuals, abortion providers, or anyone in Oklahoma City.

I don't like these comparisons because when an abortion center is bombed, or after Oklahoma city, there weren't Christians dancing in the streets in celebration. Also, when people talk about homosexuals, Christians aren't threatening execution for people being gay.

A State funded University cannot limit free speech because my taxes go to said university and I say so.

You can control how your taxes are spent? That's a neat trick.

Muslims, Christians, I could care less...

God(s) gives great BJs!

True

Sir Roderick Glossop: Uhh, guys? We don't have an alienated and angry seething mass of Muslims in this country.

Let's not create one, ok?

/moderates- no damn fun but they keep the rest of you alive

Unfortunately, that's exactly what the groups who planned this event are seeking to create.

gilgigamesh

Like the french did? Or the swedes?

What did they do to create their "seething mass"? Give them too many unemployment benefits?

gilgigamesh

Could it be related to percent of population, or perhaps pace of immigration? Muslims still do not constitute a full percent of the american population while they make up almost 10 in france, where there are periodic riots.

I don't think you can claim that showing a stupid movie at a university will create a rioting mob. There are other factors here, including demographics, economics and pace of immigration.

BoozePenguin: gilgigamesh

Like the french did? Or the swedes?

What did they do to create their "seething mass"? Give them too many unemployment benefits?

Can't speak as to the Swedes, but as far as the French go, they utilized a short-sighted immigration policy to import cheap labor from colonial Algeria necessary for a post-war building boom, apparently with the assumption that those people would not reproduce and would simply pop into the aether once they were no longer needed.

Next question?

BoozePenguin
What did they do to create their "seething mass"? Give them too many unemployment benefits?

The angry predominately-Muslim people in France were created by the same conditions that lead to black militantism in the US in the 60s and 70s- Poverty, racism, exploitation, mistreatment, and no effort by the privileged white middle-class to help. Religion, or I should say a particular religion, has nothing to do with it.

Weaver95: If a student organization thinks that terrorists are just spiffy, then what do you do?

Point and laugh.

Isn't "ensuring civility" a code-word for "You cannot say this because we are afraid of X group and they may become violent"?

Like "diversity" seems to focus on diversity of culture and religion, but not of thought.

Krymore

In 1305 a copy of the Koran fell of the shelf and killed an atheist.

Coincidence?

I THINK NOT!

Swampthing in Korea: Isn't "ensuring civility" teach the controversy a code-word for "You cannot say this because we are afraid of X group and they may become violent"?

Fixed that for you.

Like "diversity" seems to focus on diversity of culture and religion, but not of thought.

This anti-Muslim "conference" was the equivalent of telling a sexist joke and then cheering about being "brave" enough to do it. The David Horowitz drones are just professional victims, and they need to do something better with their lives.

Weaver95: If the college adminstration wrote a letter that told students that negative comments about say....Christianity...were not tolerated under any circumstances - don't you think that would have an effect on students?

I don't know you little biatch, if I were you I'd probably just farking cry more. Seriously, you're the biggest farking crybaby on this site, and you do it every day. Your crybaby work ethic is admirable. The Christian right wing of this country has turned into the biggest farking bunch of crybabies on the planet, and the college republicans are the vanguard of the crybaby movement. The university administrator sent out a memo saying that she disagreed with their position! OH CHRIST, CHILLING EFFECT! FIRST AMENDMENT!

CRY MORE! Nobody was told they couldn't do shiat. Nobody was banned from shiat. The crime committed was that someone DISAGREED WITH THEIR STUPID POSTERS!

So Weaver95, cry more. Seriously. You're a little biatch, you've been a little biatch for as long as you've posted on Fark, and you'll always be a whining little biatch as long as you call someone disagreeing with your world view some sort of rights violation.

d'art: I don't know you little biatch, if I were you I'd probably just farking cry more. Seriously, you're the biggest farking crybaby on this site

god I love Fark

RanDomino: god I love Fark

It really is a great place to vent. If I did that in SA's D&D it'd cost me $10. :)

The university vice president has a right to her own speech, and her own opinion

She does when speaking as a private citizen, but not when speaking in her capacity as a university vice president. When the University vice president issues an opinion from her office, it is an opinion coming from the government. The argument is not hard to understand:

1) The University is a government agency;

2) The University vice president is an official of that agency with the power to speak for the agency.

3) Therefore, when the university vice president condemns an instance of political speech, it is the government condemning that political speech.

If you are offended by free speech, you can go back where you came from, and ban everything that offends your religion.

Therefore, when the university vice president condemns an instance of political speech, it is the government condemning that political speech.

The government is allowed to condemn freely exercised speech. The government is not allowed to punish freely exercised speech. There is a significant difference.

RanDomino: So, yeah, once you start calling other students terrorists, you've crossed the line.

Does it matter if they actually happen to be terrorists or is that nit-picking?

/Not to mention the homegrown terrorists on campuses such as ALF/ELF and if they live up to their name BAMN.