They're right. It's a hidden cost in college, and a load of BS. A new edition is just a way for the authors and publishers to keep collecting royalties, while basically making minor changes.

FTFA: "Publishers have argued that such proposals interfere with their constitutional rights, threaten the academic freedom of faculty members, and ignore the economics of textbook publishing. Textbooks are costly, in part, because relatively few copies are sold, they say."

Maybe Mr. Formo should crack open that business textbook once in a while.

/Yes, I know damn well textbook prices are a total scam.

ambassador_ahab: A new edition is just a way for the authors and publishers to keep collecting royalties, while basically making minor changes.

I had to buy the new edition for a class one time that was so much like the last edition that the only thing the teacher could even find different was an extra editor's name had been accredited. That prof tried, unsuccessfully, to get the school to do something about it (he had been promised a new book with better explanations and easier to understand problems, and was unable to look at it first because "it wasn't ready yet" when they had to order them) but was told they couldn't.

Reverend!

Well, it's both true and false. For example, take Halliday & Resnick, the introductory physics textbook. For my first two semesters, I was able to use the copy my dad used back when he went to college -- so little had changed (I occasionally had to photocopy some of the new homework problems, but that was it).

But then they underwent a serious revamping of the book. They got Jearl Walker (a Cleveland physics professor who used to go on Johnny Carson all the time and do cool shiat) to spice up the book, adding some neat sections on e.g. the physics of roller coasters. This had really changed the book for the better, and a new edition was really called for.

So a revamp every 10 (or 30 in this case) or so years (particularly if you want to add exercises for the computer) is probably a good idea.

When I was in college, my stats I & II classes used the same textbook, but of course the edition changed between semesters. I ended up with the old edition that I couldn't sell back, and a new edition that was nothing but a reprint of the old edition with more color pictures and changed problems at the back of the chapter.

Nerdlinger: That book was awesome.

Nerdlinger
What you mentioned about xeroxing pages for homework problems that changed between editions -- probably the number one reason for coming out with new editions every year! Otherwise, college students would pass down the answers to each new class.

mudcathi: Otherwise, college students would pass down the answers to each new class.

I had a pdf of all of the answers for my Physics textbook that I provided free of charge to anybody that wanted it. In the cases of Physics, Math, soft/hardware design, etc, it's not going to help you much if you don't understand the "why". You may do well on your homework, but you're going to be effed when it comes time for the tests.

Nerdlinger

...underwent a serious revamping of the book. They got Jearl Walker...

/glances over at bookshelf/

Yay! I loved that book! Definately one of my better written undergraduate texts! I think a friend of mine studied with him at Cleveland State... If I remember correctly, he suggested that Walker does not use that textbook for some conflict of interest issues or something....

mudcathi: Otherwise, college students would pass down the answers to each new class.

i never once had to turn in chapter homework for a college math or science class. profs suggested we do them because the same type of problem would show up on a test and practice problems helped teach concepts. heck, my calculus books came with a second book that contained nothing but the answers to the chapter problems in the book.

True for some areas of study, not for others. And even if the topic doesn't change, there may be better ways to deliver the instruction. That said, this really got me:

"Publishers have argued that such proposals....ignore the economics of textbook publishing."

Yes, by all means, let's focus on the pocketbooks of the publishers and not on the students trying to get a frikkin education.

Innovate or die, you farkwads.

mudcathi

Otherwise, college students would pass down the answers to each new class.

But is it really the publisher's concern if the students cheat? Seems tantamount to someone blocking the left lane because they want to regulate how fast everyone is driving. If the students want to waste a year of their time and several thousand dollars of (their mommie's) money to act as a scribe, copying answers from one piece of paper to another, instead of actually learning physics, so be it. The cost then gets passed to the diligent students who are genuinely interested in the subject when they have to spend more on the new edition for the class. Publishers: keep your sanctimony to yourselves!

Hmm...would I be right in presuming that someone, somewhere, beat someone else to death w/a textbook? Some of those things are certainly weighty enough for it.

I recall my calc class back in college. I bought this monster of a book new for like $45.

Unfortunately, I didn't get along with the professor, so I withdrew from the class. I ended up taking the same class with a different professor after the summer break.

Guess what? New textbook revision. My professor was sympathetic to my problem and allowed me to use my older book, but it always caused issues since he usually asked for the class to open to a specific page and not a specific section. My book was always off by a few pages.

Needless to say, the only subjects that need annual revisions are history, technology and some of the sciences. Most math, language, humanities and arts books shouldn't change.

Dinjiin: Needless to say, the only subjects that need annual revisions are history, technology and some of the sciences. Most math, language, humanities and arts books shouldn't change.

Agreed. I mistakenly bought an old edition of the textbook for an Intermediate Microeconomics course and didn't even realize my mistake until the very end of the semester (we learned about 3 kinds of duopoly equilibria in the last week; my book only had 2).

Technically, calculus has changed in 300 years. When Newton, Liebniz, and others started to use what would become calculus, the foundations were very shaky. It wasn't until the 1800's that a rigorous, solid, foundations of calculus were laid out (so that's actually 200 years, and probably less if I remember correctly). Then we do have to factor in the new computer programs (but that does not mean teaching the course with the computer programs since that just defeats the purpose of teaching the course (so the students can understand the concept) to begin with.

Math will need periodic new editions (Fermat's Last Theorem was proven in the 1990's, as well as the recent proof of the Poincare Conjecture), but nowhere near what other disciplines such as history and political science do.

Last semester, I bought a book for the graduate level "Intro to" Stats I and II courses. It cost $103, about the same as all my other books combined, and fell apart in a matter of weeks, and has numerous mistakes, which most should have been caught before publication. There is no way that book was worth what I was charged for it.

I had a good system, until the university got wise to it.

Generally, we had a month to return all purchased textbooks (whether they were bought new or used). Used books could be returned in any condition, but new ones had to be in absolute, pristine condition.

Anyways, for the used textbooks, I'd photocopy them, and for the new books, I would carefully open them, hold the page at a 90 degree angle, and snap a picture with my digital camera. It took a few hours, but I'd have all 300+ pages stored on my cam, and then organized on my laptop.

Afterwards, I'd take all $500 worth of books, and get my refund.

Now we only have like a 5-day return period, so that plan doesn't really work anymore...

So... I kept failing algebra so I got kept out ofgood classes many years ago.I can grasp Mathematics rather well, actually.
Anyone wanna sell me your used books?
I am not in school, but, I prefer something in the range of "modern" from five years ago to present.I need some light reading.
Thanks.

davin: If the students want to waste a year of their time and several thousand dollars of (their mommie's) money to act as a scribe, copying answers from one piece of paper to another, instead of actually learning physics, so be it.

As others have said, you can copy the homework answers all you want, if you can't do the problems on the test, you're fuxxored.

I grew up with a guy whose father wrote math textbooks. Nicest house I've ever been in, and I enjoyed the indoor pool all winter long. Thanks, math geeks!

/my dad was a math geek

Don't yell at the guy at the bookstore. I used to be that guy, and it's not our fault. The publishers have a good scam going, and they won't stop it.

The industry estimates four-year college students spend $644 annually on books; a 2005 government report put the figure at about $900 per year, but that figure includes supplies, too.

hahahahahahahahahahaa. $650 a year. Yea right. I spend at LEAST $400 a semester, and I'm only a poli sci student, AND most of those books are used. I have friends that have to buy $150 textbooks for each class (luckily, they'll make more when they graduate). $900 a year including supplies?

lets see, paper, pens, printer, computer, notebook, printer ink (that alone would put it over), energy to run said technology just to name a few supplies. I doubt I could fit any of those costs into $900. and don't give me any shiat about a computer and printer not being required- half my profs REQUIRE that you submit both an electronic copy and a paper copy. I had one prof that said she'd fail you if you turned in a handwritten paper.

if you get one class where the edition has been updated, you're screwed. You spent $50 on a used edition from last year's new edition, and whops, next year they've updated it again!

the least they could do is just sell supplementary books if they really feel the goddamn need to update it. Edition 7, get supplementals 1 and 2.


He disputed allegations that the nation's 4,500 textbook publishers are hiding costs, passing cosmetic changes off as new editions or packaging books with extra materials for the sake of making money.

Oh, you mean that 'workbook' and 'cd' that adds $20 onto my bill aren't extra materials? Nevermind the fact that once you open the book, you can't sell it back because I might have used the CD, nevermind the fact that I've never had a professor use any of the additional materials, nevermind the fact that you don't even SELL the textbook without the extra materials, of COURSE you're not ripping us off.


farktard farktards farktards!

We need a new calculus text because ∫u dv = uv - ∫ v du perpetuates the male-dominated paradigm of white privelege.

/got nothin'

Btw, now for the professor rant.

Professors aren't exactly innocent in this scam. Even if they're not getting direct kickbacks, a lot of professors obviously don't even care about their students enough to find a textbook that isn't shiat/overpriced/etc. this creates situations like in the article:

"That includes a $142 business text he had to buy that he has barely opened.

"It ends up sitting on the floor next to my desk," Howden said. "It's hard for me to justify.""

I think the best change you could make is to start giving a price limit for professors.

for 100 level courses, you cannot have a textbook(s) that costs NEW more than $70.
200 level, $100
300 level $150
400 level $175.

perhaps different price ranges for science classes vs. humanities or social sciences classses (cause science classes you often reuse your textbook)

I've had professors just like in the article that require an expensive textbook, then don't even refer to it in the syllabus. Luckily there haven't been many, but its happened (and if one person responds to this with "that's why I don't purchase my textbooks until after the semester starts" I'll laugh at you, cause my friends like that are all the ones failing their classes or borrowing books from me because they don't have their textbooks until 3/4th of the way through the semester).

the other problem is professors assigning 6 books for the class, in which every book costs $40 a piece. Or assigning textbooks they know that update every year, and requiring the newest edition, even though the old edition is perfectly fine.

I think professors are more at fault here than the textbook manufactorers- they're just a business. Professors are here to teach students, and they should damn well know better.

TFA: The publishing industry estimates that the average textbook edition has a four-year lifespan and a price tag of $52..

HAHAA! At my community college, the cheapest book there was around $50, used.

Katie98_KT: printer, computer, - energy to run said technology

In the governments defense (why, I don't know), those things are provided by schools. So I don't think they factored those into the price. Even then, the computer and printer should last you the full four years, and then some, so it's not like that's a yearly expense. Printer ink/toner is another story.

some_random_guy: n the governments defense (why, I don't know), those things are provided by schools. So I don't think they factored those into the price. Even then, the computer and printer should last you the full four years, and then some, so it's not like that's a yearly expense. Printer ink/toner is another story.


oh, I know that. I just don't think its reasonable to NOT factor in a computer/printer. I honestly just think that most students need at least a computer, and most need/use a printer. Its possibly to get by without technology, but I can't think of anyone I know at my school that does (and yes, I know, I'm at a yuppie school).

The ned edition is nothing more than the same cover design as the last one, but with different colors, five more problems that won't be reviewed in class, and sections trying to use the interent to further learning (as if anyone cared).

I lucked out because my Calc 1-3 classes used the same book and simply continued on from where the last semester left off.

/Only needed a new book for Calc 4
//New editions are ass
///Too freakin' expensive.
////This is a new edition slashie

Suck it, Newton!

davin: Seems tantamount to someone blocking the left lane because they want to regulate how fast everyone is driving.

What about the guy who blocks the shoulder when people are trying to pass on the shoulder during rush hour? Are you going to piss on that guy too?

you mean some of the folks on here actually went to college or university?

buahhahahahaha

Forsooth! Thou takest the sum of yon equations, and verily, by the grace of Divine Providence...


Nothing wrong with the occasional update for language.

Someday someone might say the same thing about operating systems.

ambassador_ahab: They're right. It's a hidden cost in college, and a load of BS. A new edition is just a way for the authors and publishers to keep collecting royalties, while basically making minor changes

Hidden, my aunt Fanny! It's glaring! College textbooks are the biggest scams since Diamonds. There is also no reason why a given textbook should cost 120 bucks.

Yes, that's right scifarker. Vista is just DOS with a waffle iron.

/ you idiot.

I agree. The cost of textbooks is approaching infinity.

I can use one of those new-age on-demand printing companies to make hardcover books for next to nothing. The technology is there for small-run printing at low costs for high-quality books.

Most textbooks are total BS. And a lot of schools are so entrenched with their "official bookstore" that they won't release the ISBNs of textbooks until they are already in the store and the semester is starting, making it next to impossible to buy it online and have it in time (which saves you a FORTUNE)

EVEN THOUGH THE PROFS TELL THE STORE THE IBNS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PREVIOUS SEMESTER!!!!

What total bullshiat.

Two words: Amazon Marketplace.

My last two semesters of law school, I made money buying and selling used casebooks/textbooks. Wish I would have found it sooner. Hope it lasts, before "market forces" find a way to squeeze it out of business.

Why can't the textbook companies just put out supplements? Charge $20-30 for a few hundred page supplemental book that's released every year or so. That's much more reasonable than releasing a new edition for $100.

Not that they're the pinnacle of academia, but Western Carolina University had a book rental program that was rather nice. It was about $70 a semester for a full-time student to get all of the texts for the courses they were enrolled in. (Some courses required workbooks and other materials that weren't included in the deal.)

If there was a textbook you really liked, you could generally buy a used copy from the bookstore for under $20 at the end of the semester.

The entire higher education system is a money-making scam. Sorry, but it is.

half.com
amazon when half is out of items
and to a much lesser extent, ebay.
I haven't set foot in the bookstore in years. Be careful selling books back though, some of them are pretty handy. International editions are very handy also.

/final semester

nick4753: Most textbooks are total BS. And a lot of schools are so entrenched with their "official bookstore" that they won't release the ISBNs of textbooks until they are already in the store and the semester is starting, making it next to impossible to buy it online and have it in time (which saves you a FORTUNE)

EVEN THOUGH THE PROFS TELL THE STORE THE IBNS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PREVIOUS SEMESTER!!!!

What total bullshiat.


Ours doesn't ever release them. You literally have to walk into the store and look on the shelf to get the ISBNs. luckily, they do release name, author, and the picture online.

I intergrated straying's joke. I thought it was funny to the 3rd power.

i had an ass of an economics professor who wrote the book that we used, and every semester came out with a new edition of HIS book. editions didn't change at all in content. chapters were maybe switched around, a couple different examples... but you couldn't find old editions in the bookstores. guess who was getting rich off that one?

The only thing that changes in the new editions of math & physics books are the example problems and the order of the questions at the end of each chapter. Its a complete waste of money for any student.

I also love the used book buy back...

$325 for the book new, they would buy it back for a generous $20.... Yeah I don't think so if I need 20 bucks that bad, I'll go sell some plasma.

Well, they have to add the chapter about Intelligent Design.

They have to update the word problems:

Gwendolyn and her life-partner Seashawna are rotating a cartioid about the z-axis, parameterized by...

My girlfriend's father writes a widely used circuit intro book and makes 30k+ a year off of it. A sweet deal. On the other hand he works *constantly* on it, and its easily a second full time job from teaching.

I mean, I hate my $150 books and get them well used online because our bookstore has a 40-50% markup over Amazon because rich kids can just swipe their parents card. On the other hand, he puts in way more time writing the book then anyone does using it.

I'd probably give him less sympathy if it didnt mean she could pay for our mutual expenses on dates.