I hope Subby isn't the author, because that article reads as if a 4th-grader wrote it. That aside, it contained absolutely no new information.

/by the way, 1996 just called - they want their Web site design back.

"I still believe that Nemesis was a very good film and I, to this day, don't quite understand what went wrong."

You killed Data. For no good reason.
Picard didn't *need* an Evil Clone Twin
Data didn't *need* a Retarded Clone Twin
Where the hell did "Remans" come from after 40 years of Romulans?
Oh, and you're a dick.

"Rick Berman is still more than happy to talk about his involvement with the series and the movies that he was proudly involved with."

That there is some good writing right there.

"...I, to this day, don't quite understand what went wrong."

It's because you suck, Berman ;)

I saw Nemesis in the theater and was immensely disappointed. It's the only Trek film that I wouldn't want to watch again.

Yesdog:

That there is some good writing right there.

Berman probably wrote it.

DarthBrooks: You killed Data. For no good reason.

I thought Brett Spiner wanted to stop playing him. As for the rest though, I agree completely.

"...I, to this day, don't quite understand what went wrong."



THAT is why you failed . . .

DarthBrooks: Where the hell did "Remans" come from after 40 years of Romulans?

The TOS episode "Balance of Terror" (first season, IIRC). They referred to the homeworlds of the Romulan empire as Romulus and Remus.

Miles_OToole: The TOS episode "Balance of Terror" (first season, IIRC). They referred to the homeworlds of the Romulan empire as Romulus and Remus.

True, but we were were only told of the Romulans. It's the Romulan Empire.

Okay, I'll even let that slide - but the whole Evil Twin Clone crap was bogus, yo.

Oh and another one - - when we last saw Worf on DS9, he was Federation Ambassador to the Klingons. Now he's a damn tactical officer? WTF is that?

DarthBrooks: I'll even let that slide

I kinda liked that part, just because it referenced a somewhat obscure part of Trek (and it's one of my favorite TOS episodes).

the whole Evil Twin Clone crap was bogus, yo.

You won't get any argument there, that's for sure.

Now he's a damn tactical officer? WTF is that?

Apparently it was short-lived. I guess.

DarthBrooks [TotalFark]

"I still believe that Nemesis was a very good film and I, to this day, don't quite understand what went wrong."

You killed Data. For no good reason.
Picard didn't *need* an Evil Clone Twin
Data didn't *need* a Retarded Clone Twin
Where the hell did "Remans" come from after 40 years of Romulans?
Oh, and you're a dick.

QFT!

(Although I think that Remens may have been mentioned before... that whole Romulus and Reme thing from Roman mythology)

Ok, what the hell does QFT mean?

charmed1782: Ok, what the hell does QFT mean?

"Quoted for truth"

/I think

Here's an idea: Move on to the next cast. Make a quick transition from TNG to DS9 and Voyager (together). Have it be a 2-part movie with the wormhole as a geographic center.

Right-o, the killing of Data was because Brent Spiner was starting to look older, which made it more difficult to play.

Turn the next movie over to Ron Moore.

DarthBrooks [TotalFark]

"I still believe that Nemesis was a very good film and I, to this day, don't quite understand what went wrong."

You killed Data. For no good reason.
Picard didn't *need* an Evil Clone Twin
Data didn't *need* a Retarded Clone Twin
Where the hell did "Remans" come from after 40 years of Romulans?
Oh, and you're a dick.

Add to that:

Janeway an admrial
Wesley Crusher in a Starfleet uniform with no reason given
The use of the "no way to get out of this situation so let's destroy the ship" plot device again.

submitter: why Picard's head is so shiny

Because there are four lights shining on it.

I hated Nemesis so much I *haven't* seen it again - and I've even seen Final Frontier and Generations multiple times.

Random things that made it totally suck:

1)Data's clone. That entire subplot was unnecessary.
2)Chopping out half of a subplot, but leaving the other half there, unsupported, making no sense. (ie Troi's mind-rape)
3)Blatantly ripping off Kirk kicking Kruge off the cliff

But, most importantly - what sent me over the edge from dislike it to utter hatred:

Data dying for no good reason. To be specific, Data dying because Picard froze.

If Picard had just STFU and shot the jerk, it would've had a happy ending. Instead, with the fate of the enterprise and all its crew on the line, he FREEZES. Which I don't believe he would've done. Data had to sacrifice himself because Picard screwed up and acted like a first year rookie.

Period.

It wasn't like TWOK, where Kirk did his best but Khan had a final trump card to play. Data had to die because Picard froze up.

And the annoying thing is, it could have been rewritten so that, even IF Data had to die, it could've been in a meaningful way. But no. He died, it was very emotional, and then they go and kick the audience in the nuts by saying, but WAIT! He's not REALLY DEAD! Ha ha!

*muttergrumble*

My favorite review review of Nemesis

Cracker_monkey_in_a_cage: My favorite review review of Nemesis

I love that review to, because it's dead on accurate.

TheOther

What lights?

Hm... I should probably have put that in quotes, because I get the feeling someone will link me to a transcript of Chain of Command

Berman should have paid more attention to the internet. The script leaked months before they finished shooting and was universally shiat on by everyone on the net and the exact reasons why were made very clear.

Berman actually did some good in his first couple years but should be kept from ever touching the franchise.

Make a quick transition from TNG to DS9 and Voyager (together)

The time to do that was when DS9 was still on so it could be about something easy to explain like the Dominion War. DS9 has too much back story to pick back up. And the Voyager people got back to earth so there's nothing for them to do.

Penny Arcade said it all.

Doesn't pop

Cracker_monkey_in_a_cage

excellent link, sir.

DS9 is bay far my favorite ST series. However, I'm glad they left it alone, and didn't try to make a film of it. I felt the way the series wrapped up at the end was the perfect finally to that chapter of ST.

That being said... I would love a ST movie that is based around Worf and Kronos.

I saw it again the other day, it was bad but not as bad as I remember it. The main thing that really struck me was how bad the makeup was for Beverly and Troy, they looked so haggard.

Berman sucks ... he thinks people watching are idiots.

Berman sucks. His vision was all about conflict and not the Star Trek message.

Queeg: Wesley Crusher in a Starfleet uniform with no reason given

He was promoted to Ensign in the TNG episode "Menage a Troi".

Berman sucks. His vision was all about conflict and not the Star Trek message.

Well to be fair, TNG under Roddenberry sucked. Adding some conflict to Roddenberry's saccharine vision of the future was a good thing.

Nemesis is the only Star Trek movie that I was actually angry at while watching it.

What a waste.

Dumbass tag.

All this hate for Nemesis; why? I recognize it wasn't a great film but it wasn't bad either. Insurrection, while also arguably not bad, had more of the feel of a 5th season TNG (or even Voyager) episode, and not even a 2-parter at that. The only reason for it to be a movie was the overblown production values. It was not a story well scaled to the big screen.

zimbach: I recognize it wasn't a great film but it wasn't bad either.

Wasn't bad? Wasn't bad? It was mind numbingly idiotic! We're talking Star Trek V level of suck. Insurrection was at least Star Trek III but without as entertaining a villain.

There were no good TNG movies. The last Star Trek movie worth the price of admission was VI. 2, 3, 4, 6 are the only ones worth seeing.

Abagadro - Turn the next movie over to Ron Moore.

I'll see your Ron Moore and raise you one Quentin Tarantino.

Mugato - Well to be fair, TNG under Roddenberry sucked. Adding some conflict to Roddenberry's saccharine vision of the future was a good thing.

Conflict? DS9 had some, but it was right back to the touchy-feely bed wetting crap with ST:Voyager & Enterprise.

charmed1782: "I saw Nemesis in the theater and was immensely disappointed. It's the only Trek film that I wouldn't want to watch again."

I would not see that, Insurrection (which I thought was a hair worse than Nemesis), or Star Trek V (barring curiosity if Paramount actually put up the money to finish it) again.

I'm in no hurry to the first one, or Generations, ever again either; but I wouldn't defend myself with deadly force if someone tried to make me.

die, berman. just die.

Now he's a damn tactical officer? WTF is that?

well, it's not any stoopider than taking a pissant E-4 from the bridge of the galactica and making her XO of the pegasus...

StrikitRich: DS9 had some

See, I'm a TOS snob. You can have conflict without substantially changing the format like they did with DS9. I mean, I liked DS9, but when I watched it, it was still called "Babylon 5". TOS was cheesy and campy, and that's why I loved it. It was optimistic without being utopian, charming and aware of its place in the world- a mediocre TV show.

The biggest problem with everything that followed was that it was now a Mythology. It grew beyond a "decent show" and moved into the realm of phenomenon. That kills every good show. It killed Trek, it's killing Doctor Who, and (from what I hear), it's starting to take its toll on BSG.

What we need is an entirely new concept, a totally different universe to explore sci-fi with. Stop with the remakes, the franchises and give us some new characters, new premises and situations and, I don't know... create something for a change.

I didn't mind Nemesis, but I LOVED First Contact. Insurrection was a piece of crap.

I thought Nemesis was well-written and well-directed, though my biggest complaint is that it was WAY too close to Wrath of Khan.

ekdikeo4: "Right-o, the killing of Data was because Brent Spiner was starting to look older, which made it more difficult to play."

Which makes no sense at all when they simply brought in a replacement.

t3knomanser: There were no good TNG movies

IMHO First Contact was my favorite TNG flick. I wish they had let Nimoy do what he wanted to with Generations ... it couldn't have been any worse; I'd like to think it would have been better. I've only seen Insurrection and Nemesis once each and wouldn't even bother to own them.

And FWIW I hope the story for the next one changes drastically before it comes out, and shifts away from insisting on showing us "the early years" of established characters. Why is it so difficult to do something fresh?? You'd think that would be what's need to keep this franchise afloat. I'd love to see something that incorporates elements of DS9 but that'll never happen (even though it beats the pants off of Voyager and Enterprise and in lots of ways TNG as well). The least they could do is come up with a mix of things, shake it up some, but do it in the "current" timeframe ( DS9 and forward). I'm not a fan of going to a dry well like TOS for more water. It had it's day and it was fun but let's leave it at that and not sully the memory any more than Generations did by giving Kirk a pitiful send-off.

/rant off

t3knomanser: What we need is an entirely new concept, a totally different universe to explore sci-fi with. Stop with the remakes, the franchises and give us some new characters, new premises and situations and, I don't know... create something for a change.

they did. it was called firefly. i'm no whedon acolyte but this show was genius - great stories, engaging characters with interesting and complex relationships, and all done in a way that the everyman could relate to.

so of course, it was killed off.

/not arguing tho - t3knomanser is absolutely right.

I'm going to back out of this thread and have sex with my wife.

honestly, I think a lot of the reason the last movie sucked was because there was absolutely no acknowledgement of just how old these people are.

the TOS movies that worked were great partially because they acknowledged that the actors and the characters were getting up there in years. and it was just painful in "nemesis" to watch frakes, sirtis, mcfadden, etc., made up (badly) to look 35/40ish.

Dune buggy chase. Ruined the movie from right there for me.



"well, it's not any stoopider than taking a pissant E-4 from the bridge of the galactica and making her XO of the pegasus..."

Was she an enlisted? I thought she was at least JG officer or such, though I guess she was wearing the green jumpsuit. Rank on Galactica seems a bit odd to me. I mean, Apollo goes from commander of the air group to commander of the Pegasus-from captain to major to commander and then he's back down to major and back to CAG? Shouldn't he at least be the XO of Galatica? He did outrank Tigh for a time. And what about the dude Helo? He as the XO of Galatica at one time, then Tigh dries up and Helo gets busted all the way back to captain and pilot? Almost as strange to me as Star Trek never seeming to have any enlisted personel at all. All officers. No thing would ever get done.