All of his books except The Shining read like first drafts.

...and yet you've read all his books...

Subby has forgotten the face of his father.

He's gonna go all George Lucas on your ass

Is this (original) series worth reading? The general consensus on here seems to be that the ending sucked so I'm leery about getting entrenched in it.

desertmouse

Is this (original) series worth reading? The general consensus on here seems to be that the ending sucked so I'm leery about getting entrenched in it.

The ending, in retrospect, is about the only ending that the books could have. Which isn't to say that it's not a downer, or that it didn't suck (because I didn't like it, and while I do agree with the ending, it wasn't satisfying), but that King hyped it up to the point that he couldn't live up to the hype. In that respect, the books really do seem like "first drafts". I can think of a much better analogy than "First Drafts", but I can't think of a way to say it without completely, and utterly, spoiling the ending.

What ending? I'm waiting for the next seven books, which will be completely different now that Roland has the Horn of Eld.

Right? Those books are coming?

//actually thought the ending was cool, just wish the Crimson King had been a more worthy opponent.

I thought the ending was good. I reckon that most people simply won't like any ending to any series that they've invested so much time and energy in, unless it ends exactly how they think it should.

Just wait until "Lost" or "The Wheel of Time" finally end.

Just wait until he adds the lamp monster!

Just wait until "Lost" or "The Wheel of Time" finally end.

That's assuming Jordan doesn't die before he writes the ending.

Wizard and Glass should have been half of a chapter in one of the other books. That back story in no way merited 400+ pages.

Derwood: Wizard and Glass should have been half of a chapter in one of the other books. That back story in no way merited 400+ pages.

I respectfully disagree. Wizard and Glass was probably the best of the Dark Tower novels (if you discount all the Oz stuff). Quite frankly when I first read it, I was pissed.. I had waited like 4 years or more for him to follow up the cliffhanger at the end of The Waste Lands and he promptly spends the next book on a flashback. I felt ripped off.

Then I went back and re-read WaG and really, that back story was so incredibly well-told, and the characters all so interesting, that I think it might be my favorite thing King has written.. I know Cuthbert is my favorite King character because of that book.

SPOILER (from book 7)

The biggest dissappointment of the whole series was the way Flagg died. That was B.S. King departed from everything we knew about the Dark Man (from the Stand, Eyes of the Dragon, the other Dark Tower books..) and completely wasted him to build up Mordred.. who IMO sucked.

The Crimson King was teh suck. Roland had more trouble with the lobstrosities.
/Did-a-chick.

I got turned onto those books from a friend, and couldn't read them. The Stand was fun, but man, there's soooooo many better things to read out there.


/Does anyone want to try some chocolate coated cotton?

The whole series just ran out of gas as time went along.

The books just kept getting longer and longer, and more and more pointless flashbacks were included. Wizard and Glass almost made me quit reading the books, it was that boring and bad. Somehow I made it though (taking more than 6 months to do so, I might add), and the rest of the books were marginally better.

IHateNamesWithNumbers: The whole series just ran out of gas as time went along.

I stopped reading DT after the psychotic monorail showed up. That was just too stupid for words. Especially all the words dedicated to it in III.

King almost *never* writes good endings. It's something I learned to expect with his books, but haven't read anything of his since Desperation and The Regulators. Just got tired of it.

The last three books are pretty poor. It was obvious he was rushing through to get it done, instead of lingering on the story and maintaining the dreamlike quality of the first four.

I wish King had had an editor in the 1980s who dropped The Tommyknockers on his toes and told him how to fix it. There's a really good SF novel in there trying to get out.

But now, decades later, I doubt he could fix his old books without breaking them.

Wow, all this hate for W&G, which was my favorite of the 7 books.

I guess I'm just an old softy.

Just wait until "Lost" or "The Wheel of Time" finally end.

For the love of... That series is still going??

I thought the first 3 were the best. Wizard and Glass and Wolves of the Calla were so obviously just King stalling because he didn't know how to end the story. So we got 400 pages of back story that I really didn't care about, then a side story that didn't progress the story forward an inch.

Personally, I read King's books for the journey, not the ending. He loves to write, but he doesn't know how to finish a book. I'll still read whatever he puts out because you don't have to think too hard.

The Shining scared the piss out of me as a kid.

gregoire4: Personally, I read King's books for the journey, not the ending. He loves to write, but he doesn't know how to finish a book. I'll still read whatever he puts out because you don't have to think too hard.

Yeah, I remember slogging through 1,000 pages of The Stand and then having it wrap up in an ending that might as well have come in a chapter titled "Deus Ex Machina".

I still hold the Dark Tower series in high prestige, it is by far my most favorite series.

Yeah, the ending wasn't exactly the greatest, but it did it for me and after some long thinking myself, I didn't see any other way it could end. Book Six though was horrid, and I really wish King had done away with the whole Mordred...side story I guess. It just became really irrelevant.

The Stand was also great, and another book you could tell that King obviously didn't want to come to an end, but had to.

But really, if you're reading books solely to get to the end, maybe you shouldn't be reading

I still think The Gunslinger is the best thing he's ever written.

I love the Dark Tower so much I'm gonna take it out behind the shed and make love to it.

First of all, the ending to the Dark Tower is really the only way he could've ended it. Anything else would have been a joke. And hey, he does warn you befor you read the Coda.

As for the Crimson King, yeah, I was disappointed too, but when you think about it, that makes sense too. The world had moved on, he was old as hell and why do final battles always have to be the hardest?

Wolves of the Calla was the weakest in the series.

Wizard and Glass stands on its own.

The story I want to get, which I hope we do from the comics is in The Drawing of the Three, when he's w/ Jack Mort, that talks about how (paraphrasing) "he didn't want to kill this world's gunslinger, slow they may be; but he'd done it before. Wasn't it he and Cuthbert who gunned down Alain?" That's the only reference to that in the whole series and I REALLY wanted to find out why. I think that was the only disappointment of WaG for me, because I assumed he was going to pay it off for reasons in the book involving pink things.

Techhell: I can think of a much better analogy than "First Drafts", but I can't think of a way to say it without completely, and utterly, spoiling the ending.

BINGO.

Hey, don't bash the Tommyknockers.....that was a good book! So was The Stand, it's one of my favorite books ever. Can't say that I agreed with the end of the Dark Tower series, I wanted more from Flagg and all of that, but I'm hoping he will write more now that Roland has the Horn of Eld. I want more stories from his childhood, and to know more about Gilead, and how the world moved on, what happened to the "Old Ones", and what caused the mutated animals, etc. And i of course want to know more about what happened to Roland after, same with Eddie Susannah, Jake...it seemed kind of lame to dump them off in that world. There's a LOT left for King to tell, and I was sort of pissed at Wizard and Glass because of that (same with Wolves of the Calla) because I was expecting to get some of those answers as they went along on their journey. He's a good writer, he just needs to pick up some of the loose ends all-damn ready...he isn't getting any younger, and I MUST KNOW THE ANSWERS!!!

aendeuryu: For the love of... That series is still going??

Unfortunately, yes. The Wheel of Time... ponders on and on and on. The latest one was a bit of an upturn from the previous three pieces of crap.

However... Robert Jordan's health has taken a nasty turn as he has apparently developed a case of Amyloidosis. This understandably has somewhat affected his writing. I wish him all the best of course but damn... if he up and dies before finishing this thing.

SPOILER ALERT?

Don't forget that at the end of DT7 Patrick Danville hooks up with Ted Brautigan and company and SK kind of hinted that someday he may tell their story.

I agree with the people saying you have to read King for the ride, not the end. I always feel bad when his books end, probably just how he feels too.

My only complaint is all the overly sexed scenes he throws for no reason. I'm ok with Roland having sex with his girlfriend (can't remember names for the world), but I don't want the play-by-play of it. Could also go without the a**rape added scene in The Stand.

SPOILERS
Mordred, I'm a bloodsucking demonic spider but I eat a taste of rancid meat and I totally continue to suck at life forever.

Oh wait a minute, I just died. Eh.

re: Wheel of Time

I was suffering through these until I found George R.R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" books.

Awesome stuff. highly recommended.

/Now WOT seems even more derivative, plodding, and childish.

vaselinedean

"he didn't want to kill this world's gunslinger, slow they may be; but he'd done it before. Wasn't it he and Cuthbert who gunned down Alain?"

I believe he briefly revisited this in VII when he said it was an accident as Alain approached and they shot first before knowing who it was.

I could have totally done without King making himself a character in The Dark Tower. That really ruined the series for me.

ASOIAF on HBO FTW!1!

I loved the series as a whole but it really did come across like he "forced" himself to write some sort of conclusion to the story with the seventh book. A shame truly, it was such a disappointment.

Part of me suspects that King will come to terms with this and continue the series sometime in the future. But perhaps that's just my love for all things post-apocalyptic speaking.

MonkeyJack: I could have totally done without King making himself a character in The Dark Tower. That really ruined the series for me.

Bingo. What other writer would be so egotistical as to write himself in and try to kill himself off?

I had so hoped for some kind of confrontation like "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" with Flagg, Roland, and Modred throwing down. Then he up and wasted Flagg, and really, that was a total shame. Modred, as written now, was pointless. Other than finishing off the ka-tet. And what the hell happened between Insomnia and book 7? That kid was supposed to die, and the ridiculous way he finished off the Crimson King was aggravating. I know some contend that events in Blackhouse, The Stand, Insomnia, and It weakened the King to what he was left as, but come on, that was horrible.

Original DragonLance saga FTW!

MonkeyJack: I could have totally done without King making himself a character in The Dark Tower. That really ruined the series for me.

quizzical: Bingo. What other writer would be so egotistical as to write himself in and try to kill himself off?

Clive Cussler once raced Dirk Pitt. I don't remember who won.

David Gerrold ("The Trouble with Tribbles") tried this with his "Chtorr" series. Nobody cares anymore if he finishes it or not.

I am working my way through WaG right now. While I agree it is great back-story, I do have to wonder why there is so much. I have pretty much forgotten the rest of the story as I work through this. But it is King and this is his style.

Wizards and Glass annoyed me too, but it was so good, I was actually disappointed to return to the main storyline after it was over.

My $0.02...

Ending: It was a great ending. Not everything in life has to be a Hollywood ending. If you don't get the ending, you really don't understand the books.

Flagg's Death: Meh. King created him, he can kill him however he damn well chooses.

King as a character: If you don't understand why he did this, then once again you don't get this series. Read up on some of his thoughts regarding the book. Puts things into perspective.

For those new to the Tower, or thinking of picking up the series:

The first book is an enigma...it is absolutely one of the best of the series when you look back at it, reread it, etc...but, people reading it for the first time have a hard time continuing to book two. They just don't see enough in the first book to carry on with the rest of the series...my advice...the first book is very short (about 250-300 pages of large print)...read it together with the second book (the drawing of the three). Make sure that you go directly into the second book with no down time between...the payoff is worth it.

Books 1-3 are universally accepted as wonderful. I myself loved the 4th book and consider it the best of the series...although there are others that disagree...but overall the 4th book is loved.

The 5th, 6th, and 7th books are controversial. The 6th book, The Song of Susannah, is univerally considered the weakest of the series. Book 5, The Wolves of Calla, has many things to love, but introduces the author as a character in the story...which split readership down the middle....some loved this turn of events...others, not so much.

The ending of the series...the 7th book...is controversial because of the ending...which is a bit of a "sleight of hand" by the author. While there is nothing wrong with the storytelling, the characters, or the structure...many people did not like the "reveal". There were also some "big bad guys" that some feel did not live up to the buildup of the previous novels.

I myself loved the entire series, and the only complaint is that I feel some of the bad guys in the last book could have been more menacing.

But...here it the deal:

Pretty much everyone agrees that King has created a new type of Fantasy novel, from the ground up...unlike tolkein and the other great fantasy writers that based their works on european myths and legends, King has created a mythic world based almost completely on american Legends, myths and stories. The Gunslinger...a lawbringer, emissary, judge, jury, and executioner...gunplay raised to the level of a martial art...the great western plains turned into a fantasy world of possesed preachers, vampiric nuns, human mutants that live in remains of dead mines...evil men in black, harvesting festivals and riddling contests, trains that cross vast wastelands not of dirt and dust...but of radioactive waste...an entire fantasy americana...

So should you read it if there are a good many people that say the last 3 books aren't as good as the first four...

The answer is yes...you will come to love the world the gunslinger lives in. You will realize what a wonder it is that King has created a new type of fantasy almost single-handedly. You will want more...and you will want it to be the best that it can be...

Which is King's catch-22...he created something so good, that his fanbase will accept nothing but absolute excellence...which is a hard mantle to live up to...and personally I think that many are way too hard on the last few books...they were a fitting ending to the series...

-h3dge

Wolves of the Calla is my favorite of the series, because it starts the plot moving again when I felt it had become stagnant. It was also a pretty good stand-alone story and shows us what true gunslingers are capable of.

Song of Susannah could have been left out completely, IMHO.

The Dark Tower (book 7) was completely out of tempo due to King having wasted time on the previous book and having to cram 3 books worth of resolution into one book's pages. He rushed it and it suffered terribly. He released 6 & 7 in the same year, and it was obvious that he was ready for a break from writing and did a total rush job to satisfy the fans. There could have been a wonderfully tragic and heroic climax before the inevitable 'downer' ending in the Tower, but King chose to have his 3 big, universe-class powerful, evil guys go out like punks so that Roland didn't even have to face two of them.

I hope he revises 6 & 7.

Fark.com - where you can always count on 95% of the people hating whatever the subject is.

I enjoyed the Dark Tower series, and I thought the whole thing was great. Some books were better than others, but when you have eight books in a series they can't all be on equal footing. I would highly recommend it to anyone.

For those new to the Tower, or thinking of picking up the series:



Well put.

Glad you made the effort to put that into words.

You have not forgotten the face of your father.

h3dge;
well said.

I really wanted King to go pack and write more about the days before the worlds had moved on, but George Lucas cured me of that.