Are white people supposed to feel guilty about that?

In other news, some high schools students make fils...

slayer199 [TotalFark]

Are white people supposed to feel guilty about that?

Yes, everything evil that befalls black people is the fault of the white man! Didn't you get the memo?

/no real reason to post this other than the 'that's racist' kid has already been posted

//oh, and they're black too...so it's topical.
///what?

Wow. All the neocons are in full force this morning. Is Free Republic down or something?

MmmGravy: Wow. All the neocons are in full force this morning. Is Free Republic down or something?

It's Fark Freeper Friday. Happens every week.

zappaisfrank:

Yes, everything evil that befalls black people is the fault of the white man! Didn't you get the memo?

Dammit..no! I didn't get the memo. I'll start feeling guilty after lunch...I'm too busy now.

Looks like a problem for the doll makers to me.

slayer199

Are white people supposed to feel guilty about that?

Didn't seem like that was the point of the documentary to me.

You don't think it's kind of f*cked up, though?

My guess is that their prejudice stems from the high levels of black on black violence in the country.
When I see a big Asian guy walking down the street towards me, my first thought isn't Ninja!. Mostly because there isn't a history of Asian violence in the US.
Much as I hate to admit it, the first thing that goes into my mind when I see a big black guy walking down the street is suspicion. Then I look at how they are dressed and how they carry themselves. I am more wary of the black person due to higher levels of violence from that community. They fact that they are easily picked out in a crowd doesn't help them.
Is this the media's fault? maybe. I've never been personally effected by any black violence so why would I hold this prejudice?

Meh, the topic in general makes me sad.

But if you do the same test using a glass of plain milk and a glass of chocolate milk, I'd think you'd get different results.

dillenger69

Taking the laws of self preservation seriously is not racist in itself. There is just as much to be feared from a big white biker guy as from a large black guy. However, our perception is that the black guy is more threatening because of how much violence is associated with black culture and lifestyles.

While I have never been directly a victim of black-on-white violence, I've had some close calls. One was in Chicago where I happened to take the wrong exit and ended up somewhere I shouldn't have been. Luckily, I got out OK but not before being called "white motherfuker" and other things by a group of black males dressed like rappers hanging out on a street corner.

Vorticity the Monkey:

You don't think it's kind of f*cked up, though?

It's totally farked up. Seems like a horrible self-image problem.

/shoulda added the /sarcasm tag to original post

dilenger69When I see a big Asian guy walking down the street towards me, my first thought isn't Ninja!

Of course not, if you see an Asian he obviously isn't a ninja. Its the unseen Asians running along the rooftops you have to worry about.

as a white female I will never truly understand what it is like to be discriminated against for my race in the same way that a black female would, but I equate it to the way I get discriminated against as a woman. And I have to say that the most sexist people are other women. I believe that when women can stop calling each other 'biatches' and 'sluts' and blacks can stop calling each other the n-word, we will be making strides forward.

So what's the problem? The kids aren't influenced by skin color but by what they see other kids doing. So we should train them to flavor things by their skin color then?

Also consider that the vast majority of doll commercials on TV feature white kids playing with white dolls, baby or otherwise.

/relevant?

zappaisfrank: Also consider that the vast majority of doll commercials on TV feature white kids playing with white dolls, baby or otherwise.

/relevant?


Ever see "White Man's Burden" the flick with John Travolta and Harry Belefonte?
The story wasnt the best, but the concept was quite enlightening.

HamsterTamer: So we should train them to flavor things by their skin color then?


brown = chocolate
red = cherry
caucasian = tapoica

"How come when it's white they call it a mouse but when it's black they call it a rat? Why is it when it's white cake they call it "angel food", but when it's black they call it "devil's food?"

Show me, on the doll, where he touched you.

Boo. Need some warning when a video has ads in front of it.

My initial reaction wasn't that the country is as racist now as it was 50 years ago, my first reaction was maybe this test isn't as valid as everyone thought it was.

That documentary was discriminatory against Asians.

spaZkid: Show me, on the doll, where he touched you.


Touched by an Anglo.

Yo, I know this documentary is racist 'cause it doesn't mention Latinos, Asians, Indians (dot, not feather), Pakistanis, Arabs, and the rest of the mud people of the world, what tha dealio?

I think we're as a whole much less racist than 50 years ago, but the black demographic has developed their own internal self predjudice of themselves and perpetuated such since desegrigation, so the outcome is essentially the same with that particular test despite somewhat different causes.

Before you had a no-holds outright haterd of blacks from whites, when whites held all power. It's no wonder a black child would view themselves as 'dirty' or simply not as 'beautiful' as a white doll. The children grew with that atmosphere agaisnt their culture. It's really no different than some of the class differences earlier in history. Poor families were thought of as unfit and unclean just the same.

Today, though, despite having obtained their rightful equality in society, many blacks perpetuate the stereotype simply by conforming to it - using the same analogy as dillenger69 - If I see a clean-cut black man in a business suit walking down the street past me, I think nothing of it, other than "Thats a nice suit." If I see a black guy in some tacky jeans and a black hoodie thug-walking his way toward me, yes I'm going to be suspicious as well. Not because he's black - but because of his mannerisms, the same mannerisms other ethnic groups have adapted from the black stereotype to obtain a similar image.

One point - Why not ask the children a different series of questions based upon the same social ideas, ie: 'Which doll is stronger?' ect?

This experiment was flawed from the get-go! Where was the Optimus Prime doll? I guarantee 10 out of 10 children would have selected it as "the best doll".

Clarinch: I think we're as a whole much less racist than 50 years ago

definitely agree with you there...

Today, though, despite having obtained their rightful equality in society, many blacks perpetuate the stereotype simply by conforming to it

disagree here, partially. clearly you're correct in saying that there's a black stereotype that some perpetuate (obviously there's white, asian, latin@, etc. folks that perpetuate it as well).

i disagree with your statement that blacks have achieved their rightful equality in society. they are jailed more often, gainfully employed less, and hold fewer political/corporate offices than whites, for starters.

old habits die hard, for one thing, and real live racism is still thriving in america.

for another, the rich-white-boys-club didn't self-destruct in 1968, which means that most of the money is still flowing to folks that created the channels for it back in the days before they had any competition from black men, or any women, or whites born poor, or latinos, etc.

...things to consider. i agree the laws have changed, and that's a big step. but it's on the whole still a white man's country.

I love how in race threads lots of people instantly start defending themselves and screaming "WHY SHOULD I FEEL GUILTY" when no one even implied they should.

Hmmm the Kids are from NY.... Lets see Maybe it has to do with the Rap industry hiphop music and everything that majority of young black americans value today. They value street credit, money, girls, fame, getting paid. I mean that's what a GOOD PROPORTION of African adults display...

Ever seen the show Miss New York, the spin off from that Flava flav show? What Majority of Rappers talk about. Look at the music on top of the charts and listen to their lyrical content... It Breeds stupidity..

//Bring back Bill Cosby.

pvd021: //Bring back Bill Cosby.

He said that kids needed to pull up their pants and speak well .
And some people though this was controversial.

wtf?

Bukharin


He also said black people should stop being ignorant, have a bunch of kids with different men, never being married. To go get an education, to stop living for the streets. Basically he said to all the GHETTO ASS black folks to shape up because they're making the hardworking good black folks look bad.

Clarinch: If I see a clean-cut black man in a business suit walking down the street past me, I think nothing of it, other than "Thats a nice suit." If I see a black guy in some tacky jeans and a black hoodie thug-walking his way toward me, yes I'm going to be suspicious as well. Not because he's black - but because of his mannerisms, the same mannerisms other ethnic groups have adapted from the black stereotype to obtain a similar image.

Agreed on that. My point was that, due to instant obviousness of the skin color I don't notice the clothing and mannerisms first. There's a gut reaction prejudice that I (we?) need to fight due to our culture.

Bukharin: He said that kids needed to pull up their pants and speak well .
And some people though this was controversial.

wtf?

the problem with cosby is that he was saying, "if only we could pull up our pants and speak the king's tongue, our problems would end."

not acknowledging that racism's got a bit of momentum on its side in a society like ours is a bit awful, right?

dillenger69: Much as I hate to admit it, the first thing that goes into my mind when I see a big black guy walking down the street is suspicion.

I've never felt physically threatened by a baby, much less an inanimate doll. That's what this film is about, black kids affinity for dolls, not adult fear of another adult.

The thing that struck me was that this girl just went for it and made this, and got it out there. 99% of high school term papers, projects, and science experiments are pure crap compared to this, and it probably only took a few days for her to do.

Maybe if the black dolls didnt look like a chocolate easter bunny (all one color) the kids might pick that one a few times. Youll notice the kid hesitated when they asked which doll he looked like. Thats becasue that dolls color was rubbish. Of course, im not dismissing the validity of the original experiment. Also, if there is a race of people who should feel guilty about this it would be those who identify themselves as black. Sorry well-off white folk. Guilt. Not yours.

RocketRod: But if you do the same test using a glass of plain milk and a glass of chocolate milk, I'd think you'd get different results.

LMAO. I just snorted Dr. Pepper.

Clarinch: If I see a clean-cut black man in a business suit walking down the street past me, I think nothing of it, other than "Thats a nice suit." If I see a black guy in some tacky jeans and a black hoodie thug-walking his way toward me, yes I'm going to be suspicious as well. Not because he's black - but because of his mannerisms, the same mannerisms other ethnic groups have adapted from the black stereotype to obtain a similar image.

Ya, I have to agree.

I also like to hold judgement until I hear someone speak. I was on the bus the other day, and this black girl got on the bus with her friend. They seemed normal, so I didn't bother paying any attention... but then she sits down and just announces, "I'm hungry as fark."

Then starts talking about when she was pregnant, "That nubian was HEAVY."

Sometimes I just want to plead with the black people on my bus. "PLEASE stop perpetuating stereotypes!"

On my bus, its about 10:1 ratio of "thuggish" black people to "normal" black people. Kindda sad.

Bacontastesgood: I've never felt physically threatened by a baby, much less an inanimate doll. That's what this film is about, black kids affinity for dolls, not adult fear of another adult.

But their choice in doll might be based on what they see in adults.

there's been a bunch of posts on this thread that suggest that black people in america are suffering from an image problem -- the ones that project a certain image are ruining it for everyone else.

is the presumption of y'all posters that the crux of black people's struggles in the usa are basically a result of the way they act? in other words, do you reject the notion of a system that has racism built into it?

So, has anyone ever done research into why a child's brain would interpret a white doll as "nice" or "better" than the black doll?

Or are we just assuming it's because black children are taught from an early age that blacks are somehow inferior?

Scopa: On my bus, its about 10:1 ratio of "thuggish" black people to "normal" black people. Kindda sad.

And this is the portion of our program where someone says, "What, should black people act 'white' to be considered 'normal'??"

meddlin' kid

is the presumption of y'all posters that the crux of black people's struggles in the usa are basically a result of the way they act? in other words, do you reject the notion of a system that has racism built into it?

No i think they wish to infer that SOME black people ruin it for the rest. Like you said. That also infers that a smaller part of the whole can label a whole race a certain sterotype. Also, there is no such thing as 'black people's struggles' anymore, there are just black people who happen to be struggling. If there is a negative selfimage of black people it comes from the constant reenforcment of the notion that black people DO have it rough simply because of their skin and they couldnt possibly get ahead in life, why bother- type malarky.

swastikashapedreadingcubicles: Also, there is no such thing as 'black people's struggles' anymore, there are just black people who happen to be struggling. If there is a negative selfimage of black people it comes from the constant reenforcment of the notion that black people DO have it rough simply because of their skin and they couldnt possibly get ahead in life, why bother- type malarky.

aha. so the visible effects of racism are then the result of a kind of self-fulfilling-prophecy -- an internalized defeatism. i can see the logic in that.

personally, i'm of the persuasion that the centuries of legalized oppression created a momentum that wasn't completely countervailed in the 60s, placing blacks in a unique position.

not unique in that they're the only oppressed group in america (see: whites, poor), but that the keepers of the gates of prosperity are overwhelmingly of a different hue.

i see the baggy-pants/ebonics/thug-life thing as akin to the legendary drinking problems the irish had/have. when we first showed up, there was outright oppression, that our internal demons made worse...but the main thing holding us back were the captains of industry that profited from our lowly position.

/a different logic

Jack31081: And this is the portion of our program where someone says, "What, should black people act 'white' to be considered 'normal'??"

To which I would reply, is talking loud, cussing, listening to stereo systems, writing graffiti on the wall, and pushing eachother around, "acting black"? No, its just obnoxious.

Sad. Those parents need to quit pushing their insecurities about their own identities out to society and down to their kids so the cycle may finally stop.

And don't lecture me 'cuz white people have issues too.


Also,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjy9q8VekmE

Ad free, and for me at least, doesn't stop and go back to the ad at the beginning.