We need a plague.

Badly.

Pray for end to abortion? Oh noes!

Worship pictures of President Bush? That's a new one for this story. Way to be original, submitter!

submitter: to fight for their religion

Sort of, but not in the way you imply.

pray for end to abortion

Well, duh.


worship pictures of President Bush

Dead wrong.



I don't particularly care for these camps either, but stop twisting them into something they're not.

"I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are in Palestine, Pakistan and all those different places," Fisher said. "Because, excuse me, we have the truth."

"A lot of people die for God," one camper said, "and they're not afraid."

"We're kinda being trained to be warriors," said another, "only in a funner way."


Is the scary tag on vacation?

Lovely, another martyr movement. What could go wrong?

I am just going to shoot anyone I don't know. The evangelical Christians and the radical Muslims and everyone else can all kill each other as far as I am concerned. When the war starts, I am just going to off anyone who approaches me if I do not know them. Hopefully that strategy will see me through the war to a wonderful world without religion.

russkaya-arabskaya amerikanka: Is the scary tag on vacation?


No, we just don't have a "quote-out-of-context" tag.

flavor of the month: Speaking in tongues, weeping for salvation, praying for an end to abortion and worshipping a picture of President Bush - these are some of the activities at Pastor Becky Fischer's Bible camp in North Dakota, "Kids on Fire," subject of the provocative new documentary, "Jesus Camp."

Why are two people in the thread saying the bush picture worshipping is made up, then?

/lost

beats me. they must know more than the person who wrote the article.

I'm pretty sure this is the camp they're talking about:

http://kidsinministry.com/Current.PastEvents/WavesOfGlory.html

/no linky, sorry

Churchill2004: worship pictures of President Bush

Dead wrong.

I don't particularly care for these camps either, but stop twisting them into something they're not.

RTFA. Then you can come back and blindly defend these indoctrination camps.

Does brainwashing qualify as child abuse?

Vin Diesel: Why are two people in the thread saying the bush picture worshipping is made up, then?



Because it's completely false. What they did was praying for Bush, and many evangelicals when praying for somebody like to have something symbolic to direct the prayers "at". When a sick person is in the hospital, for example, the congregation might all pray for that person while laying hands on a close relative or that person's spouse. This is no different.

Yes, it's a little odd, but it is by no means "worship"

Grandmaster Poopypants: RTFA. Then you can come back and blindly defend these indoctrination camps


I did RTFA, and it's simply wrong. I know, I've been in an evangelical church.

I no longer consider myself one, but I do still fully understand how they tick.

I will bet you $1,000 the writer of that article has never been in an evangelical church during services.

Churchill2004

have you seen this doc, or been to this camp or something?

flavor of the month: have you seen this doc, or been to this camp or something?


No, I haven't seen it because it's not playing in my area, but unless this camp is nowhere near the evangelical mainstream, I can state confidently that they weren't "worshiping" the picture.

nothing would surprise me anymore. this country is becoming beligerently anti-intelligent.

I withdraw my previous criticism of Churchill2004.

Worshipping a picture of Bush does seem beyond the pale. False idols and all that.

Of course, becoming Jesus' army and praying for GWB's Christian agenda is also creepy.

These Jesus camps seem like nothing short of outright child abuse.

Grandmaster Poopypants: Of course, becoming Jesus' army and praying for GWB's Christian agenda is also creepy


Meh, these people pray for what they want. They want a Christian agenda, so they pray for it and they pray for the man they think will give it to them.

As for the "army" thing, it's all figurative. Nobody's telling these kids to go out and kill the non-believers.

Ok I can see the correction about how they aren't "worshipping" Bush but praying for him.

What about all the "army of jesus" type stuff and what appears to be very, very much like the indocrination used to create muslim suicide bombers? That to me is the most frightening thing I have seen concerning this issue yet.

So it's not praying to a picture of Bush, but praying at a picture of Bush?

Churchill2004: Nobody's telling these kids to go out and kill the non-believers.

Yet.

entropic_existence: What about all the "army of jesus" type stuff and what appears to be very, very much like the indocrination used to create muslim suicide bombers? That to me is the most frightening thing I have seen concerning this issue yet.



The proof is in the pudding. How many of these kids are going out and killing people in the name of Christ?

It's a superficial similiarity at most.

entropic_existence: Yet.


These camps aren't new.

Churchill2004: Nobody's telling these kids to go out and kill the non-believers.

Not in so many words. But teaching them that anyone who believes differently from them is the "enemy" and calling them an army is setting the table.

But whethese kids go commit acts of violence, it'll be all about Marilyn Manson, somehow.

Grandmaster Poopypants: Not in so many words. But teaching them that anyone who believes differently from them is the "enemy" and calling them an army is setting the table.


They don't teach that anybody who believes differently from them is the enemy. They teach that the devil is the enemy.

The whole point of these people's existences is for them to get people "saved", killing people because they don't believe is anathema to this goal.

Churchill2004: How many of these kids are going out and killing people in the name of Christ?

I don't think it's that hard to believe that abortion clinic bombers get started with indoctrination mighty young.

Can't point to any statistics that say bombers went to these camps, but is it such a leap to believe that?

Churchill2004: The proof is in the pudding. How many of these kids are going out and killing people in the name of Christ?

It's a superficial similiarity at most.

Just wait until Palpatine orders them to execute Order 66

/I keed

Churchill2004: They teach that the devil is the enemy.

They also teach that anyone not working for Jesus is working for Satan, and therefore the enemy. That's in the trailer for the film, stated by a "teacher" at the camp.

Grandmaster Poopypants: I don't think it's that hard to believe that abortion clinic bombers get started with indoctrination mighty young.

Can't point to any statistics that say bombers went to these camps, but is it such a leap to believe that?



Those are such a small group of people as to be statistically insignifigant. They're just your run-of-the-mill sociopaths, you get a few of them in every barrel of apples.

Grandmaster Poopypants: They also teach that anyone not working for Jesus is working for Satan, and therefore the enemy. That's in the trailer for the film, stated by a "teacher" at the camp.


Hmm... everything I've ever heard has been along the lines of "fooled" by Satan. I'd bet that a more in-depth look into what she says on the subject would reveal that it's really more along these lines.

How ironic that the end of abortion is now here, soon to be readily available, and yet, it won't be allowable to christians. It's called the Plan B pill and if it was made available to all girls, regardless of age, at no cost and without any shame or recriminations, we could pretty much say goodbye to abortion forever.

Your question: How many of these kids are going out and killing people in the name of Christ?

My answer: Some.

Your answer: hose are such a small group of people as to be statistically insignifigant.

We've all seen what kind of violence a small group of religious fanatics can accomplish. That very same man who they pray for has secret prisons where those who seem likely to commit violence get to rot without trial.

Indoctrinating children into this "army" is reckless disregard for human life on a macro scale. Each individual kid might not necessarily be a threat to commit violence, but planting this seed in thousands and thousands of kids? Are you really arguing it's not dangerous?

American Centrists need to rise up and start kicking ass.

Action Replay Nick: "Mommy, I'm having this much fun at Jesus camp!"

Looks like an O-face, actually.

Churchill2004: unless this camp is nowhere near the evangelical mainstream,

From the article:The film has caused a split among evangelicals. This camp is, by many accounts, a small - and perhaps extreme - slice of what some say is a growing, intensifying evangelical youth movement.

I think you're a little fast at defending them Churchill2004. It sounds like they may be nowhere near the evangelical mainstream. I'd have to do some more research on this before I'd say one way or the other. I'd at least like to see the film.

worship pictures of President Bush

See what we all didn't realize was that the first commandment actually had a siging statement associated with it

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Radicalize Judaism. Check. Radicalize Islam. Check. Radicalize Christianity. Check.

Armageddon?

worship pictures of President Bush

See what we all didn't realize was that the first commandment actually had a singing statement associated with it

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
------------(unless it's George W Bush.. he's the only one.)

It's much easier to brainwash people when they are young.

I seconde the call for a plague.

But they're white Christian religous fanatics, which makes it OK!

This one time, at Jesus camp....

I did RTFA, and it's simply wrong. I know, I've been in an evangelical church.

I no longer consider myself one, but I do still fully understand how they tick.

I will bet you $1,000 the writer of that article has never been in an evangelical church during services.

Yes, because every evangelical church camp is exactly the same, so your experience must apply to everyone.

Watch the trailer for the movie. It is pretty clear that this is exactly what is going on.

Suprised nobody's posted the movie trailer: http://www.apple.com/trailers/magnolia/jesuscamp/trailer/

So much for the religion of peace.

I wonder if they're taught this verse:

John 11:35