Gee. I wonder if it's because of the EU nation's lack of a universal health care system or ultra-low taxes on the super wealthy that is creating all their economic growth.

Or maybe their economies have been stimulated by starting a stupid and pointless war in the middle east?

Perhaps the Europeans are a more pious, church-going christian conservative people than we are, and God just loves them more?

Maybe, if we ask VERY nicely, our "MBA president" might share some of his vast wisdom on the subject with us.

An empire in decline is a sad thing. Sic Transit Gloria America.

Riche: Gee. I wonder if it's because of the EU nation's lack of a universal health care system or ultra-low taxes on the super wealthy that is creating all their economic growth.

Or maybe their economies have been stimulated by starting a stupid and pointless war in the middle east?

Perhaps the Europeans are a more pious, church-going christian conservative people than we are, and God just loves them more?

Maybe, if we ask VERY nicely, our "MBA president" might share some of his vast wisdom on the subject with us.



Maybe it's because these nations have very recently rolled back these kinds of hand-outs?


Anyway, short-term trends are meaningless for judging that kind of thing. This has been something that showed in the LAST TWO QUARTERS. You can't judge a trend as big as what you're claiming in that amount of time. In the long term, the US has consistently out-paced Europe, in part due to heavy tax burden and regulation in Europe. They've also just added a lot of Eastern European nations who don't have the kind of things you're talking about. Most of this growth is actually in places like Poland and the Czech Republic. France has something like a 10% unemployment, iirc. Germany's only a little better.

We could have it all if we stop policing brown-people countries and just let them kill each other off.

Anyone know the unemployment rate of the EU countries? I've heard 10%+, but never looked it up.

EconAtheist: Oh, look: It's Churchill.

Can't believe you're here.



Yes, believe it or not I am indeed a TotalFarker. I'm sorry if you haven't noticed yet.

Pale_Green_Pants_With_Nobody_Inside_Them: Anyone know the unemployment rate of the EU countries?

Unemployment rate is dubious. In the US, the only people counted in the unemployment rate are people who are fully unemployed and who are currently receiving unemployment benefits who are counted. If you are working 10 hours a week, you are considered employed. If you are unemployed, but didn't work long enough to get unemployment, you are considered employed. If you are a computer programmer, but are working full time at Walmart at a tenth of your salary, you are considered employed.

Unemployment rates mean jackshiat.

9.4% for all the EU (note: that's not just the Eurozone)
9.9% for France
11.7% for Germany.

Those are all from the CIA World Factbook, and are "2005 estimates", so they might have come down some, but they haven't been chopped in half to reach the US's 5.1% (also from the CIA WFB)

eddyatwork: Unemployment rate is dubious

That's fine as long as they can't be used either way to prove the vitality of the economy. Funny, if it's in your favor, you support it, otherwise, it's a bunch of hooey.

/not you specifically.

With Germany's economy on the upswing, why is this suprising? And why are asshats dragging politics into this? I lol.

It's the beards. Many German men have beards.

Yeah, but it's still full of those stinking Europeans.

Oh yeah! America's dad can beat up Europe's dad!!

that1guy77: I lol.

I lol at you...for two reasons.

1. you use lol
2. you've adopted this faus innocense on the way the world works.

And why are asshats dragging politics into this?

oops. sorry, carry on. didn't realize this went green.

that1guy77: With Germany's economy on the upswing, why is this suprising? And why are asshats dragging politics into this? I lol.



Because people are trying use this to justify their own political agenda, i.e. increased hand-outs. I'm just saying how A) It's wrong to say that Europe has a better economy than the US, and B) It doesn't justify many European nation's disatrous social policies.

Its kind of funny, if the numbers were reversed, the Republican Youth of Fark would be trumpeting how the American System was best, how it proves God's on our side, how the War On Terror was great for business, how our MBA President had his hand on the tiller (or was that in the till?) of the Ship of State.

But since the numbers don't quite back their fantasies up, out come the excuses.

Riche

Or, just maybe, it has something to do with the fact that the average unemployment rate over there is over 10%, so when your economy upticks a bit, it gets magnified

"Wooooo.....we reduced unemployment by half! Now if we can just find a way to get the tens of millions left jobs!"

If you are a computer programmer, but are working full time at Walmart at a tenth of your salary, you are considered employed.

Why shouldn't that count as being employed?

It's because we saved their asses in the War.
Otherwise, the Krauts would be strolling along the Ku'damm talking Japanese right now.

eddyatwork
An empire in decline is a sad thing. Sic Transit Gloria America.

So says the guy with this in his profile:

Bio: Unemployed again. Dammit

my Poop is purple!

Economies are fickle to begin with. Eventually, ours will be retrieved from the toilet, and theirs will be threatened with a courtesy flush. We just have to remember to giggle the handle, that's all.

The photo by the article suggests that Germans are hard at work boosting Japan's economy.

Not that GDP is necessarily a good indicator of economic power, but the GDP of the U.S. was just very recently and very slightly outpaced by THE ENTIRE EU. One country vs. 25.

And, for the record, most of the countries where most of the economic growth is going on in the EU are countries like Poland, Czech, etc. which have flat taxes, low taxes, very few social programs, low economic regulations and do not have the Euro.

Yay!

Pale_Green_Pants_With_Nobody_Inside_Them:
I lol at you...for two reasons.

1. you use lol
2. you've adopted this faus innocense on the way the world works.

And why are asshats dragging politics into this?

1. "faus" is not a word.

2. I'm sure you meant "faux" - which predictably you will adopt a "faus" innocence (please use spellcheck)/denial to.

3. If you're going to come off as "better than thou"... Be better than thou.

4. I lol again, troll.

I'm sorry but I'd like to see a study on how the unemployment rate is calculated between Europe and the US. If I had to guess, our unemployment rate is probably about the same as Europe's.

This part of the article:

The euro zone grew almost 1 percent last quarter, outperforming the United States, Britain and Japan.

...is wrong. The US economy grew at a 2.5% rate last quarter.

Two friggin' quarters... big whoop. We've been kicking their asses for over a decade.

Still, I'm glad that their economies are picking up, as most of my investment portfolio is overseas...

i cant wait for the Socalism = Communism agrueement!
/waits for it..

Why does Europe hate America?

how much of that growth is spurred by american dollars?

Socialism = Communism

Jose628, dude. it's not just Europe.

You can't compare unemployment rates between the EU and US because they define it quite differently. Most governments invent definitions that make the unemployment rate seem as low as possible often only counting those who are currently eligeble for certain kinds of unemployment benefits. Since those benefits are far more widely available in European countriens than in the US you will no doubt get quite different numbers. For an accurate comparison you would need to use the same definition which is often not possible without acces to the raw data. Using definitions like percantage of the working age population that is actually employed is also not always a fair way to gouge unemployment because some cultures have for examply a lot more stay-at-home-moms than others. Also as on EU politican once pointed out in this context if europe kept as many of it's citizens behind bars as the US did that would certainly lower the unemployment rate by several points.

So... we are compary nations to continents... Interesting

i cant wait for the Socalism = Communism agrueement!

What is the difference again?

"socialism, n.:a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole."

"communism, n.: a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state."

From Dictionary.com

Hmmmm...

/The distinction is just so lefties can be communists but not be associated with all the really horrible shiat socialism has done to the world.

//Righties do the same thing with theocracy. I'm an equal opportunity assmunch hater.

It's the Final Countdown !

ragga_muffin, thank you.
/i need a personal spell checker to follow me around.
//i'm not completly stupid, just to lazy to proof read.

Rowan Atkinson in Rat Race: It's a race! I'm winning!

I've never much liked it when they lump all the European countries together like this. They only do it so that it seems like a competitor to the US.

In reality, it's a whole arseload of different economies, and this is just an arbitrary average.

Wow, countries that are coming out of a 5 year slump are growing fast. News at 11.

DrToast
The euro zone grew almost 1 percent last quarter, outperforming the United States, Britain and Japan.

...is wrong. The US economy grew at a 2.5% rate last quarter.

I believe they mean it actually grew 1% last quarter, not an annual rate. In that case, the US grew, i don't know, .65% or so in the quarter.

Churchill2004:

Because people are trying use this to justify their own political agenda, i.e. increased hand-outs. I'm just saying how A) It's wrong to say that Europe has a better economy than the US, and B) It doesn't justify many European nation's disatrous social policies.

I'm no economist, but I believe it's silly to have a USA-vs-Europe argument replacing an intelligible economic conversation. Oh well, but I'm assuming that's what the thread topic calls for...

Anyhow, the European economy seems like it's been in a hole for quite some time, and now they have a giant vacuum of vacancies being filled. Thus, a higher growth rate that is proportionate to their economic trends, hence it's not fair to have a "who's economy is better?" argument when it's apples & oranges - and people trolling.

Submitter obviously was being sarcastic with the "interesting" tag.

All right, that's it - I'm not gonna take this sitting down. I'm going out to buy some shiat. Who's with me?

It's simple cyclic economics. Europe's economy lags the U.S.' The U.S. economy has been strong and Europe is finally catching up.

That is all.

that1guy77

I believe it's silly to have a USA-vs-Europe argument replacing an intelligible economic conversation.

You're right. I think people are using Europe vs. US economy as a proxy argument for "free markets" vs. "socialism." Which is a fallacious assumption, anyway, since some countries in Europe are more free market than a lot of states in the U.S.

Churchill2004
Maybe it's because these nations have very recently rolled back these kinds of hand-outs?

Anyway, short-term trends are meaningless for judging that kind of thing. This has been something that showed in the LAST TWO QUARTERS. You can't judge a trend as big as what you're claiming in that amount of time. In the long term, the US has consistently out-paced Europe, in part due to heavy tax burden and regulation in Europe. They've also just added a lot of Eastern European nations who don't have the kind of things you're talking about. Most of this growth is actually in places like Poland and the Czech Republic. France has something like a 10% unemployment, iirc. Germany's only a little better.

dude...Did you even read the article? German economic growth is driving almost the whole thing. True, there was (badly needed) relaxing of some employment regulation, but this growth has come just After rasing taxes and just After making sure everybody makes a living wage.

You do have a good point about the long term picture. I guess time will tell.

As for the unemployment figures, I'm deeply skeptical of claims that the U.S. is hugely better off.

I think we do have it a bit better in that area overall, but it seems the U.S. has a far more "Optimisitc" way of counting who is unemployed than the Europeans. I always could be wrong on that matter.

Also, look at Canada. They have social support goodies similar to Europe AND a budget surplus.

=====================

Upshot of it all is that I'm saying that it is possible to have universal health care, a balanced budget, a living wage requirement and a reasonably secure social safety net without giving up economic prosperity.

You just need some long-term thinking, good leadership and an intelligent tax system that dosen't give everything away to the wealthy and well-connected.

Oh, and a defense budget that doesn't outspend the rest of the world combined would help, too.

from the article:

"Economists are predicting about 2.2 percent growth this year, double the rate of last year."

Long term, Europe has been moping along at 1% +/- 1% for a long time. The US has typically hummed along at nearly triple that rate (3%+).

Short term US growth rate:

"Real gross domestic product -- the output of goods and services produced by labor and property
located in the United States -- increased at an annual rate of 2.5 percent in the second quarter of 2006,
according to advance estimates released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the first quarter, real
GDP increased 5.6 percent." (http://www.bea.gov/bea/newsrel/gdpnewsrelease.htm)

Long story short: the article is full of sh!t.