Blah blah blah. What war? Which country are we at war with? Afghanistan is over. We didn't catch the bad guy. Where are we at war now?

Yeah, thats what I thought.

yep, that seems to be the strategy

get ready for enslavement!

/schitzoparanoia

well. at least they are honest :)

Well, you can't have inconvenient things like freedom and democracy getting in the way when you're fighting to defend freedom and democracy...

Exactly FishBulb...what war? We're doing nothing that we haven't done in the past, except this time we're being more open about it and calling it "war".

Cool! I can't wait for my first tour of firing squad duty.

Right on. From one who's there.

When was war even declared?

farking Rehnquist. He sounds like Chick. It's ok to commite these horrible atrocities against constitutional rights as long as we apologize for them later.

NEWS FLASH, farkO. WE ARE NOT AT WAR!

Keep it up, bastards. Keep spitting on the parchment you pretend to serve. Keep destroying our faith in you. Keep trampling our rights and freedoms. When you lose the election, or in your case Rehnquist, when you DIE....you will not be missed.

He emphasized he was offering "only a historical perspective,

The reporter left out "wink wink, nudge nudge"

This is going to be a very, very long century...

The US hasn't declared war since WWII. War needs to be declared by an act of congress, Bush wants to concentrate his power by not calling on congress before dispatching military forces overseas.

Why is it that the people that whine most about "losing their rights" are not the ones who are willing to die to defend those rights. I know I am and the squid is. Is anyone else? Because if you are I need some extra points to help me get promoted and can I use you as a referral when you go to the recruiting office.

Mikey65: Because it's also our constitutional right to not be forced to be walking killing machines. Some of us have this thing about not wanting to shoot others. Sorry!

06-16-02 05:11:01 PM Stoatbringer
Well, you can't have inconvenient things like freedom and democracy getting in the way when you're fighting to defend freedom and democracy...

Very nicely said...

Whoawhoawhoa!!! I'm not dying to defend anyone's rights. That's their farking problem, bucko. I'm just here to make sure I'm within easy reach of a weapon and some free college money.

When it comes right down to it, I'm going to save me and mine. You and yours can go hang.

FishBulb: Have you forgotten already? It's the endless "War on Terror (Except for the Saudis)". It can be extended endlessly, and has no real ending. Kind of like the War on Drugs...

Quick1,

yea, the Saudis are not on the shiat list. Hmmm....

"I want to kill! I want to see burned dead bodies, I want veins in my teeth!". And the recruiter said "You're are boy!"

So if your ship gets blown up, you didnt die defending others rights? What ship you on anyway?

Mother stabbers! Father rapers!

Where are the voices of reason? Both the Republicrats and the Demicans have sold this country out.

Quick1: Good point. I fear we may end up being as successful prosecuting a war against terrorists as the British have been against the IRA (and the myriad of splinter groups) and the Spanish against the ETA, to name a couple conflicts which have been happening for decades.

I don't advocate doing nothing, but there probably is not a resolution to the problem.

This story matches well with the 'Not in our Name' post. There are more and more people who are beginning to realize that the US government is creating enemies in order to keep its power over people.

If there were no enemies, would we need the ability to attack anywhere around the globe? No, but the US has established itself and grown only by virtue of military conquest, and so must continue to conquest and plunder in order to survive. When the US runs out of foreign 'enemies', it will turn on the citizenry. It has already begun, in case you haven't noticed, in the form of ever-increasing forms of taxation and ever-diminishing means of self-sufficient labor. Taken to their conclusion, these government policies will literally enslave everyone.

You call this freedom? Oh sure, you can *say* anything you like - freedom of speech - but when you dissent in *action*, it's treason. This is what the US is *really* defending - its absolute power over its population. Wake up people.

Mikey65, the people who protested for civil rights in the 60's and 70's were defending their rights, and they were not in the military. Some of us wear the green, some don't. But the ones willing to stand up to authority for what they believe in are the true warriors.

Nope. I would have died by being in the wrong place at the wrong time in pursuit of my profession. Because hey, everybody needs a job.

shiat, damn enter button. Add a line:

And they are the true defenders of freedom.

Right, Deus. Mikey65, how old are you, 13? If fighting for your country is so noble and great, how come most of the people in the Bush administration are farking draft dodgers? The ppl who pull the strings have more important things to do than to die on the front lines of some idiotic war. (We still haven't declared war.) The only reason the US bombed the Afghans was because they had the weakest government in the region. All the bombers were Saudis! Way to go, Bush. What a tough guy. This war is a farce and anyone who believes differently needs to remove Bush's dingaling from their mouth.

Where are the idiots who don't see this transparent power grab for what it is? The U.S. was not like this once. I'm ashamed for my country. *rant!*

I thought the people in the 60s and 70s were fighting protesting to gain rights not defending the rights they had not gained yet. How did Colin Powell become a general? It was not by dodging the draft I'm sure. If you have been in long enough to make 1st class I think you can get another job.

See what I mean, Mikey? Most civilians (and even certain military members) think that rights come from protest marches and sit-ins. If that were true, Vietnam would have ended long before it did. Rights come from the edge of a sword or the barrel of a gun. They always have.

When it comes right down to it, I will have my gun, and I will enforce my right to be left alone. It would be nice to have other people of the same mind on my side, but they would rather just sit and whine and hope someone else will take care of it.

WE ARE NOT AT WAR, and to say that possible future terrorism is enough to justify a state of war, is to say that for all time to come we must surrender our rights. terrorism is not all organized and does not go away. france, israel, britain, russia all have had terrorism, most for DECADES. you would argue that we should surrender our rights for 20 years? 30 years? BULLshiat. times of war = times of DECLARED WAR. who have we declared war on? fark you right wing partisan assholes in the supreme court and the white house. I'll keep my rights thank you.

Gah, the farking "I'm in the army, you're not so you can't say anything bad about our country" schtick is as annoying as extremist tree hugging....

What rights did we win killing people in Vietnam? In Desert Storm what rights did we win? World War I? In the words of General Smedley Butler -- "War is a racket." Pure and simple. Don't be a farking idiot. Go play with your GI Joes.

^and many don't even read enough of our posts to make coherent rants.

For all of those who say we are not at war, got tell that to our men that are looking in caves and living in a fighting hole, or fox hole for the army.

Skwidd: Unfortunately, if you try to fight for your rights against the government with a gun they will squash you like a bug. In the belly of the beast, the only weapons you have are your voice and your feet. The only war Bush is leading is the war against reason and liberty.

Mikey65:

Then we agree, something is wrong.

Don't forget that the Chief Justice is the guy who borrowed his robes from Gilbert and Sullivan. Good thing he didn't have a thing for the Lord High Executioner.

Mikey65: No one should have to tell them. It's obvious since war was never actually lawfully declared. They just go where they're told to go like good little jarheads.

Pigpen
"If fighting for your country is so noble and great, how come most of the people in the Bush administration are farking draft dodgers?"

I want you to name every member of Bush's administration and then tell me which 51% are draft dodgers. Then repeat for the Clinton administration.

"The only reason the US bombed the Afghans was because they had the weakest government in the region."

Funny, I remember it a little different. Wasn't the Taliban harboring and protecting bin Laden? I could be wrong.

"This war is a farce and anyone who believes differently needs to remove Bush's dingaling from their mouth."

Excellent statement. Thoughtful and concise. Thanks for playing.

Unfortunately, if you try to fight for your rights against the government with a gun they will squash you like a bug.

No one said you had to fight alone. No one said you had to stand up and out of cover while they shot at you. Nobody said you couldn't just leave, either.

In the belly of the beast, the only weapons you have are your voice and your feet.

Yeah, the voice of the people mean a hell of a lot when they can't (or won't) back it up with their own arms. That's why everyone ignores protestors.

fark it. If we're the bad guys in this "war on terror," let's act like it. Let's make it VERY public that we a shiatload of bombers in striking distance of Mecca. If we suffer one more terror attack, we give the green light.

So just to be clear, Skwidd, essentially you're saying Democracy is a fantasy and freedom is simply the capacity for overwhelming violent force? I thought so too ^_^

Shlabotnik: "I want you to name every member of Bush's administration and then tell me which 51% are draft dodgers. Then repeat for the Clinton administration."

Bush, Cheney, Clinton, yada yada...I have a list somewhere.

I'm no fan of Clinton either. I have trouble deciding which one is more corrupt and stupid.

"Wasn't the Taliban harboring and protecting bin Laden? I could be wrong."

Weren't the Saudis harboring Al Quaeda, weren't the Syrians, the Palestinians, the Iranians, and several other arab states??? What about the US who funded the guy for ten years?

"Excellent statement. Thoughtful and concise. Thanks for playing."

You're welcome.

Shlabotnik: Nothing is more admired in politics (and political spinning and party-bashing) than a short memory. You, sir, would not be admired in politics.

It's really weird seeing people try to spin the facts of events that happened not even a year ago to fit their own political views.

Let me guess pigpen. I think I know a few people like you. You thought you could join the military to get some money for college the realized you could not hack it, so you did some drugs to get kicked out. Now the military and government did you wrong so now you biatch about everything.

Mikey65: I know a few people like you, got your GED and joined the military thinking your life would finally matter for once. I never even considered joining the military. I paid for college out of my own pocket delivering for Fedex for 5 years. In other words, I worked for it like most people. When my brother told me he was joining the Navy I told him I thought it was a mistake. It's just like any other job, but way more shiatty.

On the positive side, CJ mentions that in the long term that respect for civil rights and liberties increases.

The Western Civilization as it exists now has NO WAY OF DEFEATING TERRORISM -- the military technologies we have perfected for Big Ass Wars are not going to protect us from mad bombers.

What We Need is some kind of very good ways of spying and counterterrorism that won't infringe on innocent people's lives.

That said, i think this whole "terrorsm" is OVERBLOWN let's face it the drunk drivers are killing thousands of people every year just doesn't make the news. MEDIA determining our national priorities